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Post by snotling on May 23, 2017 14:01:33 GMT
I never read or heard anything like that. And if something like that is not coming from pp directly, it has no value anyway.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 23, 2017 16:26:43 GMT
I never read or heard anything like that. And if something like that is not coming from pp directly, it has no value anyway. The Warmahordes community strongly believes in the idea that if you repeat something often enough it becomes true.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on May 23, 2017 17:09:05 GMT
I've read in several places (though I have yet to see an actual quote) that the intention of PP was to get the BEs into 50% of lists. If that is true, then the Throne is a far cry away from that goal. Actually, I would think most BEs are a long ways away from that goal. I'm going to hopefully assume that is false, because if nothing else, it's just a terrible idea anyways.
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Post by cainuslupus on May 23, 2017 20:02:08 GMT
My hope is that if we stay real quiet, it might make it through with that 4th initial attack. If so then I'm sold. I'm on the same boat
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Post by Cheesebeard on May 23, 2017 22:12:07 GMT
My hope is that if we stay real quiet, it might make it through with that 4th initial attack. If so then I'm sold. I'm on the same boat 4 unboostable PS 16 attacks is nothing to write home about. The Animantarax gets 2 PS 15 attacks, a PS 15 mount attack, and a PS 18 attack with auto-knockdown – plus it can buy and boost attacks up to three times. It's also a SPD 8 Cavalry model that can make trample attacks and reposition 3", can be healed via Medicate, in addition to having a RNG 12, ROF d3+1, POW 13 Volume Fire attack that can fire the same round it makes melee attacks. It's also 17 points. We don't have the be quiet... there are other battle engines that are just better. It feels like the Legion community has been beaten down so much that they're scared of getting something that might be seen as "strong"... I want the Throne to be desirable. I want to look at it and think, "yeah, this thing is pretty good – I want to build lists around it and take it from good to awesome!" What I see right now doesn't inspire that.
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Post by rhonlore on May 23, 2017 23:13:06 GMT
I'm on the same boat 4 unboostable PS 16 attacks is nothing to write home about. The Animantarax gets 2 PS 15 attacks, a PS 15 mount attack, and a PS 18 attack with auto-knockdown – plus it can buy and boost attacks up to three times. It's also a SPD 8 Cavalry model that can make trample attacks and reposition 3", can be healed via Medicate, in addition to having a RNG 12, ROF d3+1, POW 13 Volume Fire attack that can fire the same round it makes melee attacks. It's also 17 points. We don't have the be quiet... there are other battle engines that are just better. It feels like the Legion community has been beaten down so much that they're scared of getting something that might be seen as "strong"... I want the Throne to be desirable. I want to look at it and think, "yeah, this thing is pretty good – I want to build lists around it and take it from good to awesome!" What I see right now doesn't inspire that. And people are complaining that the Animantarax is not good. Honestly, I think the Throne is quite good. It doesn't require any support or fury investment to get the job done. If it ships the way it is, great. If it ships with Mat 6, Murderous; kiss Rhyas' feat interaction GOODBYE because that is not OK. I just want to play the current throne into Ghost Fleet with a Naga nearby and laugh all the way to the bank.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 24, 2017 0:55:08 GMT
People saying it isn't good now need to look at the faction as a whole and see that it fits in to it quite well. If we made it stronger it would be too strong paired with what we have available to buff its ability to hit or damage. other factions have a little better stats and abilities on the BE's due to lack of interactions available in faction to buff them like we do.
as is in a Vayl2 list it is threatening 14" hitting at a PS 18 equivalent next to the BFS and with Icy Grip plus Ice Cage it is Basically at Mat 11: Magic Ability 11. This could not only munch through infantry but easily take out a heavy.
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Post by Cheesebeard on May 24, 2017 2:30:25 GMT
People saying it isn't good now need to look at the faction as a whole and see that it fits in to it quite well. If we made it stronger it would be too strong paired with what we have available to buff its ability to hit or damage. other factions have a little better stats and abilities on the BE's due to lack of interactions available in faction to buff them like we do. as is in a Vayl2 list it is threatening 14" hitting at a PS 18 equivalent next to the BFS and with Icy Grip plus Ice Cage it is Basically at Mat 11: Magic Ability 11. This could not only munch through infantry but easily take out a heavy. The problem is that this just isn't true - I don't know where that kind of damage is coming from. Hitting all 4 hits, on a charge, at PS 18, the throne has less than a 3% chance of taking out a 10 point Khador heavy in one round (Marauder). And the Marauder is obviously in a better position to take down the Throne (~29%), but even against any other generic Khador heavy spam list, the Throne has no chance.
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Post by rhonlore on May 24, 2017 2:56:54 GMT
For comparison Cheesebeard, (and because I don't have War Room), How likely is an Angel to do the same/survive?
Thanks.
(I am genuinely interested, not asking to be shitty)
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 24, 2017 2:58:15 GMT
People saying it isn't good now need to look at the faction as a whole and see that it fits in to it quite well. If we made it stronger it would be too strong paired with what we have available to buff its ability to hit or damage. other factions have a little better stats and abilities on the BE's due to lack of interactions available in faction to buff them like we do. as is in a Vayl2 list it is threatening 14" hitting at a PS 18 equivalent next to the BFS and with Icy Grip plus Ice Cage it is Basically at Mat 11: Magic Ability 11. This could not only munch through infantry but easily take out a heavy. The problem is that this just isn't true - I don't know where that kind of damage is coming from. Hitting all 4 hits, on a charge, at PS 18, the throne has less than a 3% chance of taking out a 10 point Khador heavy in one round (Marauder). And the Marauder is obviously in a better position to take down the Throne (~29%), but even against any other generic Khador heavy spam list, the Throne has no chance. well if you dropped this list into a khador jack spam list your already screwed.....good thing we bring more than one list....I mean if you brought kryssa and bfs then you get 4 ps 21 attacks on feat turn......I digress to it's a model your opponent has no choice but to deal with or take a good amount of damage or infantry losses.
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Post by Cheesebeard on May 24, 2017 3:35:15 GMT
For comparison Cheesebeard, (and because I don't have War Room), How likely is an Angel to do the same/survive? Thanks. (I am genuinely interested, not asking to be shitty) On a charge with no buffs, the Throne has a 0.5% chance of killing an Angelius. If you bring it up to PS 18, 7% chance. MAT 9, PS 16 = 2% MAT 9, PS 18 = 23% MAT 11, PS 16 = 3.5% MAT 11, PS 18 = 39% All assuming a charge. Kryssa's Throne under feat, after the Khador jack has been hit by 2 ice cages and Kiss (PS 21, MAT 11), has a 59% chance of one-rounding a Marauder.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on May 24, 2017 4:02:01 GMT
as is in a Vayl2 list it is threatening 14" hitting at a PS 18 equivalent next to the BFS and with Icy Grip plus Ice Cage it is Basically at Mat 11: Magic Ability 11. This could not only munch through infantry but easily take out a heavy. You know when you put it like that it sounds kinda shitty for a 17 point model with 9 points of support and a caster buff.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on May 24, 2017 4:18:39 GMT
as is in a Vayl2 list it is threatening 14" hitting at a PS 18 equivalent next to the BFS and with Icy Grip plus Ice Cage it is Basically at Mat 11: Magic Ability 11. This could not only munch through infantry but easily take out a heavy. You know when you put it like that it sounds kinda shitty for a 17 point model with 9 points of support and a caster buff. r sorry I'll try to refrain from using examples in future posts
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on May 24, 2017 4:26:58 GMT
No other BEs other than maybe the animantarax with all its buffs are one-rounding heavies, so that's a fairly unreasonable criteria. The animantarax isn't exactly sweeping whole swathes of infantry either.
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Post by custardboy on May 24, 2017 9:34:58 GMT
The throne pretty clearly isn't meant to be killing heavies. The fact that it can help by beating them up a bit is secondary and valuable. You are spending 17 points on anti-infantry, utility and durability that is still useful when you come up against a bunch of (non marauder) warjacks. I really like them as they are.
Also, comparing anything in the game to the durability and damage of a marauder for its points is a waste of time, nothing can win that comparison.
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