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Post by Charistoph on Oct 29, 2019 1:03:47 GMT
Just as important to remember, The Iron Kingdoms world building started out as an RPG and grew in to a miniatures game later on.
Yeah, Dawn of War 2 was almost a Role-Playing Strategy game like Blizzard was originally planning on doing with Warcraft 3. It could work better as a template for a Warmachine strategy game, as Total War is just too big to handle the Focus system, even as glorious as it would be to see.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 2:33:32 GMT
most of the people I've seen talk about the app said it's donkey shit. It's odd how antiquated PP seem compared to their rivals. Most people who talk about that sort of thing don’t know what they’re talking about. Let’s talk about GW, the undisputed largest minis game company out there. When you see the latest game of 40k happening at your store, do the players track all relevant stuff through a handy app, or are they flipping through 150-page hardcover books looking for crap and referencing handwritten army lists and marking wounds with nondescript dice, 95% of the time? How about Guild Ball? X-wing? Kill Team? Malifaux? Infinity is the only other minis game I can remember seeing played with an app. The buttons and sliders reminded me of a mid-90s 4x strategy game. (But also I admit I lacked sufficient context to understand what I was looking at!) Also: have you ever used War Room 2? Do you have any personal experience with it? Maybe, Warroom 2 works good. Build list, go to war, link up with other players, track time, and other stuff. I think the only thing I miss is the search function for rules in the old one. I like seeing a summary of rules in app and not going to pdf.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 2:35:38 GMT
I don’t think my local scene is in bad shape at all.... It’s not fortnight but it’s not disappearing Honestly e sports probably has had more weird effects on how we view gaming than anything The only thing I can think of that’s comparable in terms if profit is mtg Even then...kids just don’t play table top anything as much, anymore, it seems True, even 40k in my area is not what it used to be and it is by far the biggest.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 2:44:45 GMT
most of the people I've seen talk about the app said it's donkey shit. It's odd how antiquated PP seem compared to their rivals. Man, don't you know, the only person who knows what they're talking about is Michael. Trust me, he will tell you. He is also the only one allowed to have an opinion. He also knows EVERYONE at PP and has a super sweet inside track that tells him everything going on with the game/company. He is also a master retailer and salesperson, as well as the arbiter of what could, should and will happen and the dictator of valid opinions. Silly mortal, you should've known. IRT to a few points: Why the hell would anyone "stay with" a game that isn't fun, especially a PC game? That's one of the dumbest things I have heard. If a game isn't fun, namely because its a buggy pile of shit and its graphical optimization is terrible, the mechanics are broken and the game was cut short of content then the company isn't deserving of my patience, they're deserving of a negative review of their product and scorn from the people who purchased it to fix it. The impetus isn't on me to buy a shitty product and "stick with it" until its better, the impetus is on the developer to create a good product that is fun to play. If they fail to do so, I am under no obligation to keep playing it, wasting my time and hope that the same people who produced this partial-birth abortion of a game to somehow get it right. No thanks, I'd rather just play XCcom, Battlefleet Gothic, Homeworld/Homeworld 2, Civ, or any other really decent PC strategy game. This is also, obviously the reaction of most of the people who bought the game, backed the kickstarter, or otherwise came across this hapless pile of shit. I agree. Part of growing pains but PP has managed their licensing like sh$#. Some real missed opportunities with PP getting screwed on Monsterpocalypse v1.0 movie rights (and forced them not to sell product until they bought it back) and White Moon dreams was a waste. WMD promised the moon and they didn't deliver. Sucks but PP should consulted with someone one what they should have expected from the game based on the budget and keep it small. Especially at that time. Sin, Wasteland 2, and a bunch of other isometric revamps could have made an interesting wargame/rpg. Sometimes going all Dikatana is overrated. Moving forward I think they should just do what GW does and go on a licensing blitz. Ya some will be dudes, but the ones that aren't will shine.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 2:50:22 GMT
Same goes for conflict chamber vs war room. One guy on his own does a better job of squashing bugs and meeting his (targeted subset of) users' needs. The apps for Guild Ball are also created by fans, though one of them (arguably the worst choice) is now officially recommended by steamforged. For what it’s worth re: War Room 2 versus Conflict Chamber: I have only ever experienced a single actual bug in WR2, and that was with a 500-ish point Unbound list, so hardly commonplace. The random listbuilding goofs happen everywhere. I know I’ve hit a few in Conflict Chamber. Personally, I have found Conflict Chamber harder to use. I disliked the way it automatically chose the free models prior to Oblivion (disclosure: haven’t tried post-Oblivion) and I know I saw plenty of weird PC miscalculations that occurred when repeatedly adding and subtracting items from a list. All of which is to say: Conflict Chamber is not bug-free or perfect. We should remember that when discussing the merits. Is the addition of full-on rules and guaranteed lifetime updates (above and beyond list-building capabilities) worth the price of admission for WR2? It is for me, and for pretty much everyone else I have ever encountered. Do you find that people use the free solutions over War Room 2? I agree on that. I have used conflict chamber. I wasn't impressed. It is just a list builder. Wow. Legend of the Red Dragon had more functionality and that was a BBS door game with 10 moves per player. Warrom 2 is a functionality app. It actually adds to the experience. And while the PDF sucks, I guess it does give me a page number for my minibook. Well that part sucks.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 2:53:25 GMT
Yep, that’s me, self-righteous! So... care to come up with a plausible scenario for how and why Privateer would ever take the risk of making another video game? (Also: it helps to try discussing the points raised instead of attacking the people making those points. Saying what amounts to “Nuh uh!” doesn’t quite cut it as a coherent argument.) But, I’ve gotta admit, you’re right, guys! Nobody has EVER (Warmachine black & white Prime) released a suboptimal product and, through the long-term support (Prime Remix) and the dedication of fans (MK II) ever iterated to a better product (MK III). I mean that is crazy! Who ever heard of such a ridiculous idea?! Obviously buying imperfect products would only encourage the company to keep making the exact same products! There’s no way they’d ever listen to customers who ask for improvements, or ever consider changing things on their own initiative! On a completely unrelated topic: I love the block feature on this forum so much. I think PP should not invest anything in a video game. I think they should do a GW and just licensing blitz the whole thing. Even a Candy Crush version of Warmachine would be good. Think about it this way, even if it not what "we" would want out of a Warmachine game, it gets the IP out there.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 3:00:43 GMT
Yep, that’s me, self-righteous! Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step to recovery. But, I’ve gotta admit, you’re right, guys! Nobody has EVER (Warmachine black & white Prime) released a suboptimal product and, through the long-term support (Prime Remix) and the dedication of fans (MK II) ever iterated to a better product (MK III). I mean that is crazy! Who ever heard of such a ridiculous idea?! Obviously buying imperfect products would only encourage the company to keep making the exact same products! There’s no way they’d ever listen to customers who ask for improvements, or ever consider changing things on their own initiative! I'm stunned that you might actually consider this a similar situation. If PP released Prime with whole pages missing, a backstory of "gosh these guys like to fight", and minis that disintegrated when they got wet, would you have "stuck with it" hoping for things to improve? People obviously saw value in the first edition - they saw a world with potential they liked, model designs that appealed to them, rules and an attitude that attracted them after being called WAACI AM A HOMOPHOBEs or whatever. There was value present in the first impressions, even if it had problems. If there's something enjoyable at the core, you can stick with it and see whether it improves or gets worse. When the entire package is a mess from soup to nuts as it was with Tactics, it's an entirely different proposition. Aaahhh page 5, before the cult of woke. To be fair, I am not sure Page 5 could survive the ANT IF A that is present in the Seattle area at the moment. Even GW is revamping SoB into an army of Daryl Manvers. I am surprised PP hasn't followed suite and Wyrd is holding strong.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 29, 2019 3:31:38 GMT
Just as important to remember, The Iron Kingdoms world building started out as an RPG and grew in to a miniatures game later on. Yeah, Dawn of War 2 was almost a Role-Playing Strategy game like Blizzard was originally planning on doing with Warcraft 3. It could work better as a template for a Warmachine strategy game, as Total War is just too big to handle the Focus system, even as glorious as it would be to see. True, and in Warmachine you are not playing the entire army. Just a segment of a much larger force that is attempting to complete a special mission.
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 29, 2019 3:39:43 GMT
Just as important to remember, The Iron Kingdoms world building started out as an RPG and grew in to a miniatures game later on. Yeah, Dawn of War 2 was almost a Role-Playing Strategy game like Blizzard was originally planning on doing with Warcraft 3. It could work better as a template for a Warmachine strategy game, as Total War is just too big to handle the Focus system, even as glorious as it would be to see. True, and in Warmachine you are not playing the entire army. Just a segment of a much larger force that is attempting to complete a special mission.
Well, most games are played (and most of the stories written) at that level. The game has the capacity to play more, it is just a lack of willingness, time, and sometimes stable, that prevent a full engagement.
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Post by dogganmguest on Oct 29, 2019 4:29:27 GMT
Aaahhh page 5, before the cult of woke. To be fair, I am not sure Page 5 could survive the ANT IF A that is present in the Seattle area at the moment. It was probably best to drop it, rather than keep it but pussify it even more. Mk1's page 5 made Mk2's look tame though. It was still obviously not meant to be taken seriously, but I suppose print shares a bit of that internet effect where some people can't detect any intent beyond the literal meaning of the words.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 29, 2019 10:08:18 GMT
To some of the earlier comments: download Wyrd's new app for Malifaux. It's TOTALLY free and awesome. You can even choose not to download the whole card database in order to keep the app small. It tracks scenarios, schemes, wounds, conditions, scoring etc during the game. Everything. It has excellent online playmode, nice reference feature, access to news and the rulebook etc... Even if you don't play Malifaux, check it out. THAT is how you do an app. Oh yeah, did I mention it's free? Well, it's free. Wow. Compared to War Room, that is impressive.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Oct 29, 2019 20:47:28 GMT
Page 5 was just trying to tell you not to power game.
It was hiding behind something telling you that doing so was being a real MAN.
Yeah... trucks and hunting and...painted miniatures and dice?
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 30, 2019 0:44:10 GMT
Page 5 was just trying to tell you not to power game. It was hiding behind something telling you that doing so was being a real MAN.
Really? I always took it to mean to always bring the best game you could, and to power game with the expectation that you will be power gamed against. It was a way to say that war sucks, so be prepared for a fight.
That isn't to say to be a wanker, either, but more to the fact that one shouldn't be shy about pushing your envelopes.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 30, 2019 2:31:26 GMT
Charistoph has the right of it. Coupled with a healthy dose of no one likes hearing people snivel about this or that being op
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Oct 30, 2019 2:32:36 GMT
Page 5 was all about being a good sport and not being an obnoxious gamer douche, but since it was written in obnoxious gamer douche-speak, some people took it as license to be an obnoxious gamer douche.
Truly, a case of the medium being the message.
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