|
Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 20, 2019 11:51:37 GMT
I feel as if you're comparing products of different price-points? Also, Obsidian Protocol isn't out, the kickstarter only just ended a few days ago, so it's too early to hold it up as a product to compare things to since it may never actually materialize.
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Oct 20, 2019 17:09:04 GMT
Two side notes:
1) There is a 2 player box for both Warmachine & Hordes, and for a long time, there was only 1 for Infinity. While Infinity has expanded its collection, not everyone is yet represented. Warhammer still doesn't do more than 2 armies among their dozens when they release a starter.
2) While there are one faction starter boxes for Warmachine, there are the same for Infinity, the Warhammers, X-Wing (at least, on the Clone Wars), and Malifaux. Only Malifaux and X-Wing's are cost-competitive for Warmachine's and Monsterpocalypse's. Infinity's faction and sectorial starters are usually $10-15 more than MC or WMH, and the Warhammers' are twice as much.
When you have a lot of factions, single player boxes are good for new players to start with, so they can choose what to work with. I purchased 3 starter boxes for 40K, and aside from paining trials, only used a single squad of Marines from all 3, and that was the first one. Star Wars Legion has expanded to the Clone Wars, and if you don't want to buy all the tokens and dice from blisters, you'll have to find someone to take the other faction of whichever starter box you choose off your hands.
Admittedly, WMH hasn't been a skirmish game since Mk II, but resides in that middle ground between skirmish and full army. Nor is WMH a board game like Riot Quest, MC, and Shadespire/Beastgrave.
I think Neo-Warcaster is going to continue to be in that niche, though smaller than WMH. Their model count may match Infinity, but Infinity's model count has been growing with every version. Battletech will only be a competition from a "stompy mech" and hobby perspective, as it is too detailed to be competitive, otherwise.
Warmachine rules could easily be set up to run an X-Com game, and I was hoping Level 7 would pretty much be that (talk about the disappointment). If I was any level of a decent modder, modding X-Com 2 to be a Neo-Warcaster or even psuedo-Warmachine would be incredible and awesome. Who needs a Spark when you can have a Defender or a Galleon?
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Oct 20, 2019 17:40:57 GMT
I like how a 35 dollar boxed set gets compared to 90 and 170 dollar boxed sets in this thread. Shows that the remaining warmahordes community on this forum are completely reasonable people with logical and valuable criticisms.
|
|
Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Cyel on Oct 20, 2019 18:38:37 GMT
I checked and it seems PP isn't even going to appear in Essen, at the world's largest boardgame fair, to promote and sell their game.
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Oct 20, 2019 19:08:22 GMT
I checked and it seems PP isn't even going to appear in Essen, at the world's largest boardgame fair, to promote and sell their game. IF the post on Glassdoor is to be believed PP is currently running with a staff of about 30 employees. If they are in mid development mode for their new SF game, creating new models and trying to honour orders from customers, im not sure they really have the staff to go to all these conventions.
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Oct 20, 2019 19:18:40 GMT
I checked and it seems PP isn't even going to appear in Essen, at the world's largest boardgame fair, to promote and sell their game. It could be bad timing (what with the move), or they consider Riot Quest and MonPoc to be more than board games, and they haven't been doing much with their other board game lines like Level 7 this year.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Oct 23, 2019 3:34:48 GMT
Sorry, but no. The game was inherently bad. It was not just because of the bugs, the weak performance or the broken camera. The design and the mechanics were not good. Sticking to it at all costs would only have encouraged them to keep doing a bad game. As I have repeatedly said, and others have said too: there was always the option of improving the game if people had stuck with it. Operating under the assumption that WMD/Privateer would have totally ignored all feedback from people who wanted something different is folly. Post-release iteration is simply part of the industry trend now. There are numerous examples out there. They’re not very likely to ever launch another video game ever again after Tactics. Why would they? Explain why any rational business would say “Well that was a huge flop.... Let’s take that risk again.” I’m not sure why you’re so convinced the game would have improved just because people stuck with it. Warroom certainly hasn’t improved. As a list builder it’s been out & criticized for 7 years now and is still inferior to both iBodger & Conflict Chamber. I’ve stuck with Warroom through two editions for 7 years, and I’d still rather just find a way to bring iBodger back or get a conflict chamber app that lets me list build & save lists without internet than hope Warroom is going to improve. I’ve stuck with Warroom 2 since it released with Mk3. The rules reference is still PDF only, despite a nonPDF reference being the #1 complaint/suggestion for the last 3 years. It still crashes constantly. It’s still a bug ridden mess that allows people to build illegal lists. The only reason I even bother with Warroom is because it’s become mandatory unless you want to waste ink printing out a bunch of rules cards.
|
|
Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Cyel on Oct 24, 2019 17:56:45 GMT
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 24, 2019 20:04:20 GMT
As I have repeatedly said, and others have said too: there was always the option of improving the game if people had stuck with it. Operating under the assumption that WMD/Privateer would have totally ignored all feedback from people who wanted something different is folly. Post-release iteration is simply part of the industry trend now. There are numerous examples out there. They’re not very likely to ever launch another video game ever again after Tactics. Why would they? Explain why any rational business would say “Well that was a huge flop.... Let’s take that risk again.” I’m not sure why you’re so convinced the game would have improved just because people stuck with it. Warroom certainly hasn’t improved. As a list builder it’s been out & criticized for 7 years now and is still inferior to both iBodger & Conflict Chamber. I’ve stuck with Warroom through two editions for 7 years, and I’d still rather just find a way to bring iBodger back or get a conflict chamber app that lets me list build & save lists without internet than hope Warroom is going to improve. I’ve stuck with Warroom 2 since it released with Mk3. The rules reference is still PDF only, despite a nonPDF reference being the #1 complaint/suggestion for the last 3 years. It still crashes constantly. It’s still a bug ridden mess that allows people to build illegal lists. The only reason I even bother with Warroom is because it’s become mandatory unless you want to waste ink printing out a bunch of rules cards. Sticking with the game would have meant the game was alive. The game had to be alive in order for us to have any chance of improving it. As for War Room 2: I never used iBodger, so I can’t comment. There are a couple of corner-case bugs, but I personally have found that WR2 works fine for me. I always have trouble with Conflict Chamber, so stuff? Things?
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 24, 2019 20:07:30 GMT
You’ve been harping on this for quite a while. Why do you believe that attending this convention was ever part of Privateer’s strategy? Why does it matter that GW goes? Bob, the new CEO, seems to tick all the necessary resumé boxes when it comes to Europe. Maybe he has a plan, and maybe it doesn’t involve going to this con this year?
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Oct 24, 2019 22:58:11 GMT
As for War Room 2: I never used iBodger, so I can’t comment. There are a couple of corner-case bugs, but I personally have found that WR2 works fine for me. I always have trouble with Conflict Chamber, so stuff? Things? War Room has had difficulties with getting Mercenary Themes down, but at least I can make a list based off my collection while Conflict Chamber can't. Bob, the new CEO, seems to tick all the necessary resumé boxes when it comes to Europe. Maybe he has a plan, and maybe it doesn’t involve going to this con this year? It's possible. Sometimes you have to take a step out before you can properly go forward, and then there's the Brexit consideration that may be a factor. Combine all that with the big move they are still sorting out, and there are a lot of things on a new CEO's plate to work out. Not every Con can be a priority, though it helps if you want to your products to get out there. It's even possible that nobody responsible even is directly aware of it.
|
|
Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Cyel on Oct 25, 2019 5:08:56 GMT
You’ve been harping on this for quite a while. Why do you believe that attending this convention was ever part of Privateer’s strategy? Why does it matter that GW goes? Bob, the new CEO, seems to tick all the necessary resumé boxes when it comes to Europe. Maybe he has a plan, and maybe it doesn’t involve going to this con this year? Nah, this last post wasn't about PP. It was about me I just like being proven right
|
|
snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
|
Post by snoozer on Oct 25, 2019 6:03:34 GMT
The distributor of Warmachine in Germany, Burst, is at the SPIEL in Essen. Last year a friend got me a few 10€ mkii battle boxes with an additional metal Caster. Maybe that is why they do not put out another stand?
What's everyone's problem with warroom? The app works fine. I hardly ever experienced all the bad bugs people are describing tough. It is good for browsing and building. Conflict chamber is not that much faster I think.
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 25, 2019 6:44:44 GMT
The distributor of Warmachine in Germany, Burst, is at the SPIEL in Essen. Last year a friend got me a few 10€ mkii battle boxes with an additional metal Caster. Maybe that is why they do not put out another stand? What's everyone's problem with warroom? The app works fine. I hardly ever experienced all the bad bugs people are describing tough. It is good for browsing and building. Conflict chamber is not that much faster I think. The original War Room was pretty awful and now whenever someone sees a minor bug, they like to shout doom. It works fine/great for me as well, the only thing that really bothers me is that they broke the pdf bookmarks (worse than they already were) and it still doesn't seem to be fixed, also that they insist on using a high res pdf which takes quite a while to load, especially on older phones.
|
|
|
Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 25, 2019 7:14:28 GMT
I don't get people who ask "What's the problem with War Room? It works fine for me!"
The app is based on a freaking 3D game engine and is therefore horribly slow. This is why sticking with it can never improve it as much as it needs to be improved. It would need to build it back from scratch. The mechanics are also not intuitive or user-friendly at all: in order to pick a theme for a list, you have to scroll all the themes fluff blurbs, composition rules and benefits; if you want to add a Mercenary unit/solo to your list, you need to add it to friendly cards and then add it to the list (and then you can add it twice even if the rules say you can only take one); you cannot see a theme's rules unless you go to build a list using that theme. I could go on for ages. And then, you've got the bugs. Some of them are there since the dawn of the app and still not fixed, like the possibility to add two Mercenary units of the same type in a theme list. There's a question about this every month on the PP rules forum.
|
|