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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 16, 2018 14:01:26 GMT
Hi guys! Just heard about... ..., so there‘s nothing (interesting) new - even 18 months later. Buuuut what I‘m really interested in is: When will S0 hit the shelfes? BC on a stick sounds just dump - but somehow funny. Has somebody playtested her? (And no, I‘m not interested in S3 or MoW. ) Cheers!
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 16, 2018 14:31:31 GMT
* Cheap doomies is still in testing, so don't go crying it from the rooftops just yet.
* List building isn't as stale as that thread would have you believe, and it's in a far better place than it has been for over a year (but yeah, still, screw themes and what they've done to the game)
* No comment on Germany, but my local meta apparently had its first new player in 18 months, so it's not exactly healthy
And as to S0; no-one knows. Early estimates were January, but then they said they hadn't even begun the first stages of making the model, so your guess is as good as anyone else's! There's been lads of playtesting done, as a lot of people on this forum seem to regard her as nothing short of the second coming, here to save Khador. In the CID I found her very useful, especially with jack lists where the free charge helps tonnes.
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Post by michael on Nov 16, 2018 16:12:19 GMT
If I had to guess: Las Vegas Open in February.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Nov 16, 2018 17:44:20 GMT
If I had to guess: Las Vegas Open in February. Yup, that would be my bet also. LVO has been a PP destination for the past couple of years.
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Post by jdeckert on Nov 16, 2018 21:39:02 GMT
I ended up mostly stopping playing a little before theme-pocalypse. But I disagree that there's nothing new/exciting recently. Yeah, I wish themes weren't all but the only way to play. But the reason I lost enthusiasm was because not terribly long after Mk3 dropped it became pretty clear that the faction identity I liked from Mk2 was gone - fast, hard-hitting, but fragile infantry. I like being the glass-cannon freight train. I think that's coming back depending on how this CID goes. Here's why I'm excited for Khador again:
1. Cheap doom reavers. I know, this one shouldn't be a surprise. But they seemed to be changed in a pretty deliberate attempt to tilt the table in favor of 'jacks and away from troops. At 9 points, that shifts back and they actually have a role again. 2. Magic weapons in Legion of Steel. The greylord adjunct helping to spot-remove troublesome solos, etc. shores up a main weakness of that list. And if that list is viable, the old-school Khador play style I missed can come back in that list. 3. Armored Corps is good - not just strong - but well-designed and fun. In Mk2 when everyone was constantly lamenting that MoW weren't good, I was in the "who cares" boat. MoW are slow and boring. They're an anvil, I like the hammer. But in AC you can get that a bit. With advance move and desparate pace, you actually are getting upfield quickly. The battle engines are fast. The list is versatile, and it's a great delivery system for any of the Butchers (who are the main reason I love Khador). 4. Sorscha0. I'm exclusively excited about her making Butcher3 even more scary. Although if Butcher1 and his folks can get sped up, I might find him more engaging, too.
In short, I think LoS gets opened up a little and hasn't been "solved," there are a ton of casters who can run Wolves and there a number of ways to run it coming (depending on CID), WK is still strong and can be run as a WG or 'jack theme, Jaws gets better with Sorscha0, and I actually like armored corps even though I thought I'd never be a MoW fanboy.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 17, 2018 9:49:16 GMT
I agree, JD. I think a lot of players picked Khador for „its“ infantry - knowing that the single jack was just a must. But even if Doomies come back, you‘ll be reduced to them in WoW, Pikes in LoS, and WG in WGK. I played jack spam, Rocketeer spam and Pikes in MK3: it became boring pretty fast. It’s because you can‘t really combine them! And to make it even worse: you can‘t (really) combine them with Mercs (lots of units and solos) either.
Since MK3 WMH offers list building for dummies: They said it would bring new players, but all it did was removing lots of long time players (for lots of different reasons per faction and in general of course). For me list building and testing different unit combinations was a large part of the fun. That‘s gone and I don’t think it’ll come back.
Anyway: S0 will definitely bring B3 back - and that might want me to put him on the table for a game or two: even without a theme because he doesn‘t need those 12-16 extra points with his old threat range (nearly) restored.
And in general: regardless what PP might or might not do, I know that the good old times won‘t ever come back: WMH is entirely burned. Players have stopped playing completely (like I did) or switched to other systems (aka „GW“) completely which are better and even cheaper.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Nov 17, 2018 10:56:09 GMT
Never mind bringing back Butcher3 (when did he go..?), Sorscha0 makes Old Witch1 legit! The greylord adjunct might push that up further, not sure. But OW1 is so close in WGK right now.
I think if this mini-CiD works out fine Khador are going to be in a great place.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 17, 2018 12:29:26 GMT
I mean: OOT! With lots of different units and solos. With +2“ he might become the allcomer he deserves to be.
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Post by auraco on Nov 17, 2018 19:05:38 GMT
JD and Krieg are back? This is starting to feel like the old PP forum! What a great day to be alive.
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Post by welshhoppo on Nov 17, 2018 19:53:41 GMT
JD and Krieg are back? This is starting to feel like the old PP forum! What a great day to be alive. Have I walked into 2016?
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Nov 18, 2018 1:22:03 GMT
Ummm, this is a bit off topic, although Krieg and JD did make negative comments about themes in MK3. I also don't like the fact that we are basically forced into playing the themes or else we are at a significant disadvantage. What if they basically made a non theme bonus allowance, like 10 free points or something like that? In this way you could still get some benefit for some solos or whatever, you would miss out on other theme benefits like; extra deployment, advance moves, ambush, free upkeeps, etc., etc., so themes would still have some advantage, but it would reopen the variety of lists and options out there.
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Post by jdeckert on Nov 18, 2018 3:42:10 GMT
I think another interesting avenue would be a non-theme format. It'd be fun to have everyone go non-theme one night a month at the LGS, even.
I also, however, think the negativity about themes is a little overstated in two respects. First, I think there are still competitive non-theme lists. I played against someone using one at the I5 that apparently did pretty well for him (Haley and a bunch of steelheads). I've got an Irusk2 non-theme list I still really like (and it has doomreavers, so it's getting even better). Second, I think that intra-theme variability is getting better and will continue to improve. There are a lot of different ways to run armored corps and WGK, for example. AC could be pretty standard Vlad2 with double shocktroopers and all the tankers. Or it could be Butcher1 with the battle engines. Or Sorscha3 with a mix of 'jacks and MoW. We've seen all three do decently well competitively already, and there could be more.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 18, 2018 10:39:21 GMT
auraco , nah, I’m not back. Even if I’d like to, I couldn’t because there’s nobody playing anymore. Where there’ve been small tourneys (12-16 players) every weekend in about 30-80 kilometers around my city, there are none (zero) today. You have to drive really far to get some games these days. - I’ll maybe get a game with a friend sometimes in future. (“Maybe", “sometimes”, you know what I mean.) welshhoppo , yeah, that’s exactly what i thought when reading some of the threads here: it’s the same stuff like in 2016 and early 2017. Amazing! Even the lists haven’t really changed with the exception of those new AC ones. The rest looks like what we’ve been playing back then (jack spam, Rocketeer spam, LoS). I'm pretty sure I could even field this one competitively: Click here!Growl , it’s why I’ve left - and won’t return. As said, it removed the fun of list building. List building was elementary and a bit of a science back in MK2. We all had to play lots of games to find the “perfect” lists to cover most threats. It became plain boring in MK3 because “the best option” (per caster) is super obvious today after just a few games (or even pure theory machining, if you know the game well). jdeckert , B3 with S0 (aka +2’’) might bring back a non-theme list that works against a lot of lists out there. Simply because B3 is really back then, dominating the scenario game - again. But well, even S1 OOT isn't actually as competitive as in WGK. Anyway, I might buy S0 if she comes with BC on a stick. Just because I’d like to test B3 with a “classic”, non-theme list.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Nov 19, 2018 0:07:19 GMT
auraco , nah, I’m not back... Growl , it’s why I’ve left - and won’t return... And this concludes our regularly scheduled program of "Dudes who don't play the game but still stop by community forums to talk crap" Stay tuned for "Devs won't do what I tell them to do in CID" and after that "The threat of Power Creep" in tonight's nightly news.
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Post by jonnyboy on Nov 19, 2018 4:17:58 GMT
Never mind bringing back Butcher3 (when did he go..?), Sorscha0 makes Old Witch1 legit! The greylord adjunct might push that up further, not sure. But OW1 is so close in WGK right now. I think if this mini-CiD works out fine Khador are going to be in a great place. Cheers, Dave I'm with you man! I've done three play test games with OW & Adjunct, and wow. Cloud on a stick save her tons of focus, free upkeep, and guidance stacks so well with her. Guidance plus weald secrets ignores cover, concealment, clouds, and incorporeal. Stack that with behemoth/destroyer with OW and you have arcing fire and +2" range for aim. Some serious shooting there. Now throw on S0 and have an entire battle group threaten 12", while also providing a much needed sideways damage buff. S0 & Adjunct are bringing Khador into a new level. I would like to hear what people are going to say khador is struggling with now. If both those solos go through with BC on a stick and guidance, PP will have patched up what a lot of people complain about. Khador will no longer be slow, most jacks will have access to +4 spd, and now we have magical weapons on a stick.
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