Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Nov 19, 2018 7:14:46 GMT
auraco , nah, I’m not back... Growl , it’s why I’ve left - and won’t return... And this concludes our regularly scheduled program of "Dudes who don't play the game but still stop by community forums to talk crap" Stay tuned for "Devs won't do what I tell them to do in CID" and after that "The threat of Power Creep" in tonight's nightly news. Haha. Totally agree, it is like me going into the 40k section on Dakka Dakka just to tell people how much I dislike the 8th edition of 40k... What is the point other than to just crap on a game people enjoy?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 19, 2018 10:01:33 GMT
What is the point other than to just crap on a game people enjoy? So if your opinion isn't popular you should just shut up? Forums are a community. A place for people to express themselves. If something is bothering you about your hobby and you want to express it around people who will understand you, you go to the forum for that hobby. That's all this is. So please don't be so casually dismissive of other people's expressed opinions.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Nov 19, 2018 10:24:43 GMT
What is the point other than to just crap on a game people enjoy? So if your opinion isn't popular you should just shut up? Forums are a community. A place for people to express themselves. If something is bothering you about your hobby and you want to express it around people who will understand you, you go to the forum for that hobby. That's all this is. So please don't be so casually dismissive of other people's expressed opinions. Nowhere did I say he shouldn't voice his opinion, what I wondered is... What is the point of participating when he clearly doesn't care about the current status of the game or this particular brand of the hobby anymore? He can voice his opinion all he wants, but this is a discussion about Sorscha0, not a thread to air his grievances about why he does not enjoy the game. This thread had already gone far off topic as it is with people bemoaning that they don't like themes.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 19, 2018 10:51:09 GMT
Nowhere did I say he shouldn't voice his opinion That's how your statement read to me, I'm glad to hear that wasn't what you meant. what I wondered is... What is the point of participating when he clearly doesn't care about the current status of the game or this particular brand of the hobby anymore? Obviously I can't talk for Kriegsspiele, but I suspect my situation is not too far off from his, so I'll answer the question in general terms (I'm taking you at face value and assuming that it's a genuine question and that you actually want to know the answer): Warmachine is a very consuming, multifaceted hobby that asks for a lot of investment from the players. While a person might be dissatisfied enough with the current state to not be willing to play because they derive little enjoyment from doing so, that doesn't mean that they have no attachments to the game and the community. The original post was was a question, driven by the hope that situation had improved, suggesting that Kriegsspiele WANTS to play the game. It sounds to me like he doesn't care FOR the current state of the hobby, not that he doesn't care ABOUT the current state of the hobby. He can voice his opinion all he wants, but this is a discussion about Sorscha0, not a thread to air his grievances about why he does not enjoy the game. This thread had already gone far off topic as it is with people bemoaning that they don't like themes. He's the original poster; in my opinion that gives him more leeway to steer the conversation. Plus the original post brought up several more points than just playtesting S0, including list building under themes, so I don't think it's really off-topic. I suppose my post was a little aggressive. I regret that. It just felt to me like the thread was starting to turn antagonistic, with people criticizing each other for having a different viewpoint (again, that's just how it read to me, I realize now that might not have been the intention), and I was hoping to stop it from going any further in that direction.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Nov 19, 2018 12:40:51 GMT
Soul Samurai,
Hey man your good, no worries! My wife tells me I have this terrible habit I picked up from not only growing up near Boston, but also from the military, that when I say/type things... I tend to sound like a douche whether I mean it or not. My apologies if I offended, turning my "filter" back on can be hard for me to remember.
And yeah, I understand that he is the original poster (I had actually forgot that for a bit haha), but the constant talk of him not coming back was just wearing on me since I came to this thread to learn about/talk about Sorscha0... Seemed to also forget the talk about the Fall CID in this thread, and just mentally put all that talk into the other Fall CID thread that is going on (whoops!).
I wonder if the game would feel less stale if he would play using randomly generated warcasters in 50 point lists using the Caster Draft cards, it seems like a fun way to play out of theme, since you have no idea how your warcaster will turn out.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 19, 2018 12:55:11 GMT
Guys, don't worry: I just wanted to ask for the S0-release ... but started reading some threads here. That's been a mistake because it just reminded me of old discussions and showed me nothing really changed during the last 18 months. Just one more theme (in Khador) is even worse than I expected back then. I also hoped Mercs would find a broader way back into list building.
It feels really sad because I hoped for some kind of coup to get WMH back on track. All I read here and hear from a friend who just attended the WTC tells me a recovery is most probably more unrealistic than ever before. People are even talking about PP squeezing the last money out of the player base to look good for an acquisition.
But hey, maybe it's all wrong and they make the game interesting again - and get it back on track? I'll keep my fingers crossed and will return in Spring to learn more about S0.
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Post by jonnyboy on Nov 19, 2018 13:19:58 GMT
Guys, don't worry: I just wanted to ask for the S0-release ... but started reading some threads here. That's been a mistake because it just reminded me of old discussions and showed me nothing really changed during the last 18 months. Just one more theme (in Khador) is even worse than I expected back then. I also hoped Mercs would find a broader way back into list building. It feels really sad because I hoped for some kind of coup to get WMH back on track. All I read here and hear from a friend who just attended the WTC tells me a recovery is most probably more unrealistic than ever before. People are even talking about PP squeezing the last money out of the player base to look good for an acquisition. But hey, maybe it's all wrong and they make the game interesting again - and get it back on track? I'll keep my fingers crossed and will return in Spring to learn more about S0. Man, where did you hear of an acquisition. That's a pretty bold/terrifying rumor to have out there. I hope it's far from the truth.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 19, 2018 13:57:09 GMT
That's been a rumour for long enough that I've moved it to the 'believe it when I see it' folder.
The logic was that they were churning out new models/factions and aggressively pushing older high-profit ones*, whilst simultaneously trimming down on everything that they could do away with (Pressgangers, NQ, etc). Then there's things like the mystery boxes, which scream of 'we need to get some money out of these things'. Apparently these are classic moves of a company looking to sell up; trimming down and taking actions to push short-term profits to make the books look better.
*(Supposedly the huge bases have a higher profit margin, hence the massive push on battle engines and colossals. I've not found any direct sources to back that up, though.)
That said, I would expect the same moves from a company in transition; PP is releasing Monsterpocalype and Riot Quest, and I would expect that they're trying to diversify their base a bit. (Hopefully they'll be more successful than some of their previous efforts!). But if you're planning to release entire new game systems then you also want the liquidity to absorb potential costs, and you'd want the space in the warehouses too.
So read into it what you will.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 19, 2018 14:06:56 GMT
Soul Samurai, Hey man your good, no worries! Cool, thanks! I wonder if the game would feel less stale if he would play using randomly generated warcasters in 50 point lists using the Caster Draft cards, it seems like a fun way to play out of theme, since you have no idea how your warcaster will turn out. Personally I really like that idea. Of course it's dependent on what the local player base is like and whether someone is competitive or casual in nature. Krieg, have you heard of the caster draft rules and cards PP released?
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Post by michael on Nov 19, 2018 19:40:28 GMT
That's been a rumour for long enough that I've moved it to the 'believe it when I see it' folder. The logic was that they were churning out new models/factions and aggressively pushing older high-profit ones*, whilst simultaneously trimming down on everything that they could do away with (Pressgangers, NQ, etc). Then there's things like the mystery boxes, which scream of 'we need to get some money out of these things'. Apparently these are classic moves of a company looking to sell up; trimming down and taking actions to push short-term profits to make the books look better. *(Supposedly the huge bases have a higher profit margin, hence the massive push on battle engines and colossals. I've not found any direct sources to back that up, though.) That said, I would expect the same moves from a company in transition; PP is releasing Monsterpocalype and Riot Quest, and I would expect that they're trying to diversify their base a bit. (Hopefully they'll be more successful than some of their previous efforts!). But if you're planning to release entire new game systems then you also want the liquidity to absorb potential costs, and you'd want the space in the warehouses too. So read into it what you will. Yeah, it’s almost like people who have little or no knowledge of events in question are acting as amateur analysts. I’m sure the PG program’s discontinuation had nothing to do with the potential exposure from the Magic judges’ lawsuit, or the fact that the PG program took a stupid amount of PP time and effort to support, or that a non-trivial number of PGs were barely competent (or occasionally outright hostile) despite being the public face of the game. Likewise, we all know how much money there is to be made in publishing incredibly niche bi-monthly magazines nowadays — am I right, guys? They just back a dump truck full of money up to your house and are like “Where do you want this?” and Matt Wilson is all like “man I don’t know, put it near the gold-plated swimming pool ‘cause you’re like the sixth one today I can’t even...” And nothing says “good use of our resources” like stockpiling tons of the least-seen-in-the-wild huge-based models, right? Not like you pay taxes on that crap or anything. And the Back Catalogue shift — well it is totally reasonable to expect dozens of distributors and tens of thousands of niche hobby stores to carry 2,000+ SKUs of your product at all times. That’s not a logistical nightmare or anything. By the way, I’m not targeting you, Hoc. I’m just piggybacking here to make some salient points.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Nov 19, 2018 20:10:18 GMT
And nothing says “good use of our resources” like stockpiling tons of the least-seen-in-the-wild huge-based models, right? Not like you pay taxes on that crap or anything. And the Back Catalogue shift — well it is totally reasonable to expect dozens of distributors and tens of thousands of niche hobby stores to carry 2,000+ SKUs of your product at all times. That’s not a logistical nightmare or anything. lol, yea Truth be told, I think PPs number one problem is that their SKU line is hard for FLGS to carry. No FLGS, no gaming space, no community. I will be extremely happy the day PP says "Firetruck your Options, from now on everyone gets to pick from 10 Casters, 8 Jacks, 6 Units, and 4 solos", that way they can create a sweet looking display rack that your FLGS can easily stock, with consolidated SKUs, new box art, and a catalogue that doesn't require 10+ years of arcane knowledge to navigate through. The above suggestion by the way, would also alleviate the difficulty of stocking product in Europe. Of course, half the community will shit their pants cause PP needs to keep their whole Supply Chain healthy and moving.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 19, 2018 21:14:57 GMT
By the way, I’m not targeting you, Hoc. I’m just piggybacking here to make some salient points. Haha, you carry on! Points well made! Ganso I'd love to see such a cull, but, as you say, brick-shitting would ensue
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 19, 2018 23:33:54 GMT
Eh, people have been bashing themes since mk3 started, nothing new here.
Personally I'm thinking the biggest issue is current cost of acquiring and maintaining a list pair, it's just too high with the focus on huge bases and each new release or rule fix shaking internal faction balance upside down. Like doomie CID should make me happy, right? Nope, because to relate to it I need to buy hundreds of dollars of old metal models.
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Post by anderfreak on Nov 19, 2018 23:50:40 GMT
I have a couple of ex-Mk2 players that still come out almost every week on warmachine night and just sit around and complain about Mk3 even though they haven't played it since launch. I get the feeling they're just chronic complainers though, because I've just never heard them have a positive conversation about anything really. It's different to jump on a forum once in a while to see what's developing, but I can't for the life of me figure out how you can devote 3+ hours on a monday night to badmouth a game you don't play.
We also have several players that don't play in theme regularly... Like it's not that big of a deal. You might lose because you were 12 points and a benefit down, but you also might win despite being 12 points and a benefit down. I've seen it plenty.
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Post by h4ppynz on Nov 20, 2018 6:05:03 GMT
I for one long ago welcomed our new theme-based overlords. Even still I'd prefer every faction have a, no doubt grossly disproportionate **glares at Cryx**, "Irregulars style" theme where there are no/low model restrictions but poor/nil benefits (but still better the non-theme'd). Essentially any step in either a less (or more?!) restrictive game, weirdly I believe, will make a better game. [snip]because to relate to it I need to buy hundreds of dollars of old metal models. Secondhand
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