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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 19, 2018 11:23:10 GMT
As opposed to 16pt same amount of shots or 21pt for 3xP16 shots?
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 19, 2018 11:35:23 GMT
As opposed to 16pt same amount of shots or 21pt for 3xP16 shots? I was leaning towards not taking Bombardiers. They are far from the only shooting option in Armoured Corps, but I regard them as more or less the least points-efficient option
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Post by chickenslayer on Jun 20, 2018 3:44:19 GMT
They have their place but honestly I don't think you ever really need more than just 1 unit + UA and their UA is so integral to that unit's effectiveness in most cases with Dat Minifeat. Also Quick Work + Pathfinder naturally.
Good capstone to a list pushing spam in other directions though, like that list earlier with 2 Kovniks, double shockies and Demo Corps in Irusk 2 to run screening duty for them with thier UA
But swapping them out for a Chariot or More Tankers often works out better I think, especially if the caster has good Tanker support because those guys have real armour values
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 23, 2018 19:52:21 GMT
Another thing I've been thinking of.
Consider: min demo unit + UA, 14pt, 4 dudes, 5 attacks vs. max demo unit no UA, 14pt, 5 dudes, 4 attacks
Offensively (and this is mainly an offensive unit) the only thing you lose is a dice of damage on a charge, but you gain all the Dragos bonuses for it.
Now here's the trick, all UAs and solos have an opportunity cost of 4pt in AK theme because of how free stuff works. Which gives us a 12pt price tag for min demo unit+UA for an output of a full unit no UA.
Consider the following lists: #1 2x free kovniks 2x big shocks 2x big demos 1x Atanas 67 pt, 1 free solo left and no way to go lower.
#2 1x free kovnik 1x kovnik 2x big shocks 1x big demos 1x min demos+free UA 1x Atanas 65pt, 1 free solo left We have same offensive output, but we get 2pt to work with and that actually means a lot for AK list to click together.
Examples: List #2 can take a colossal+repairs on a 27pt caster. List #1 is left with useless 1pt after a colossal. List #2 can take Drakhun (Alexia, min kayazi+UA, etc. 10 pt of something). List #1 can't. List #2 can upgrade second demos with no UA to bombers and be left with 8pt which is 2 solos/UAs. List #1 can do same, but is left with 6pt which is only 1 solo/UA. etc.
tl;dr For demos and bombers the efficient configurations are: min unit+UA or a big unit+UA Other configurations are strictly worse.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 23, 2018 22:05:04 GMT
So, your argument is that in a primarily offensive unit, all you lose is some attacking output and hitpoints, in return for some defensive abilities that are mostly only useful when you are being killed? I guess I don't really see the upside here.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 24, 2018 5:38:03 GMT
It's an interesting consideration... But the main thing Dragos brings is +DEF and Bond, which both benefit from having more models. So is there really any point to including him on a min unit?
Is taking two min units of Demo good? You basically are getting an extra model for 2 points (a saving of 1 point)...
It just seems to me that one of the main reasons to take a max Demo unit is to put Dragos on it and any unit not taking Dragos is more points efficient if it's a min unit or two instead...
(I also really wonder about min Demo vs Drakhun)
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 24, 2018 8:19:24 GMT
Is taking two min units of Demo good? You basically are getting an extra model for 2 points (a saving of 1 point)... I've done it a few times; I even ran three min units for a while. If you have a damage boost handy, be that Ragman, Fury or Battle Lust, the three man unit can almost flatten a heavy. They work as a nice missile, if a bit slow.
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