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Post by Ajax on Jan 12, 2018 21:19:16 GMT
So I haven't seen an official Borka 2 dojo thread, and the ATC seems to have a few interesting Borka 2 lists. I figured I'd post a thread to get some real Dojo done, since Borka 2 was the caster that originally brought me into Trollbloods.
What kind of lists have you guys been running and finding success with? I've seen him pop up pretty regularly in other threads, with a multitude of builds.
To get it started, here's the list I've been running:
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [14]
- Pyre Troll [8]
- Rok [19]
- Troll Axer [10]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4]
Northkin Shaman [4]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
I've been happy with the flexibility of the bears to act as a solid front line when needed, or to use them to funnel the enemy into the middle of the board when necessary. I'm not currently sold on Valka, but Lanyssa has been a clutch piece consistently. Borka's personal threat skyrockets with her addition, and a free Pyre animus + Hunters Mark + Stone grants a 15" threat.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 12, 2018 21:52:23 GMT
I for sure think he is super strong into the right match up. His feat can basically give you a time-walk turn into the right list.
He runs best in PoD or SotN as his feat supports both lists and both themes don't need a lot of support from the caster to get work done.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 12, 2018 22:36:33 GMT
What's your opinion on the "right" matchups? I think a problem that I'm thinking I'll be seeing is that he's really only a "great" drop into pretty straightforward lists, a la Khador jack spam etc. Is his stealth feat and concealment usually enough to drop him into true ranged matchups? Will he have trouble with things like cloud walls that are so prevalent these days?
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Post by grabsnikk on Jan 12, 2018 23:40:26 GMT
What's your opinion on the "right" matchups? I think a problem that I'm thinking I'll be seeing is that he's really only a "great" drop into pretty straightforward lists, a la Khador jack spam etc. Is his stealth feat and concealment usually enough to drop him into true ranged matchups? Will he have trouble with things like cloud walls that are so prevalent these days? Good matchups for Borka are lists that have a lot of beasts/jacks with a limited number of non weapon master infantry and no collossals or gargantuans. Also his feat and snow shroud are not enough to play into true gunlines as they will usually be able to ignore concealment/stealth.
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Post by deviantcad on Jan 13, 2018 1:07:40 GMT
War Room Army
Trollblood - Bear Necessities
Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws - WB: +27 - Pyre Troll - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Troll Basher - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 0 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3
THEME: Storm of the North ---
I was looking at this. Some of the choices are more optimized for fun than winning though. I really like the basher with him. It has a good crit for counter charge, but mostly it gives you a beast you can trade without losing to much.
In my mind Bearka plays well into beast bricks that the doomy2/3 and cold grandma probably do better. It seems like good gunlines have 1-2 ways to deal with stealth and you don't get much out of your feat other than vs Jack or beast.
Still better then he was and a cool caster.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2018 8:24:28 GMT
Im gonna play at least one game of Borka 2 (first since CID update) tonight. My list is similar to the ones above though i have Raiders in there. They are meant to be annoying with the feat and fast to keep up with the list. The goal is to play hard and fast and have Borka do his share of the work. We shall see how it works out
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2018 10:07:17 GMT
BTW. This thread was made at least 50% more interesting by the pun in the title. Well done!
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Post by killroundears on Jan 15, 2018 12:34:50 GMT
i played against Bearka just today and i think i agree with the fact hes hoping for his opponent to be very straightforward. I played Harbinger against him, and the fact that i got some work done pre-feat (idrian shooting), countered his countercharge spell with purification, and got work done during the feat (not much, but a little) due to the book all really contributed to attrition swinging hard in my favour.
I also agree with the fact true, prepared gunlines will be able to deal with him. Having anti stealth is really important and generally most gunlines have a way to accuracy buff.
his trick is really powerful if it works though. that much i can say.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 15, 2018 17:39:07 GMT
Man, I've been dying to try out some northkin raiders, but that box price is killing me. I'll have to pick them up soon, but will need to proxy in the meantime.
I'm curious about Tim Banky's results from the ATC. Team Canada (the team he was on) managed to make it to 2nd, but I haven't seen a round breakdown yet. I'd love to see Bearka represented in the tournament scene.
My only worry is that he might fall off since he doesn't really help forge a "strong" pairing as much as casters like Madrak1/2, Gunnbjorn, or Kolgrimma do.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jan 15, 2018 18:18:48 GMT
Borka big strength currently is that he is on our adr roster and could build a nice pair with kolgrima
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Post by elwinar on Jan 15, 2018 20:48:42 GMT
I've been playing this a lot (and I mean it), with a high success rate against all kind of players.
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18]
The Bearka/H³ combo is absurdly strong, and almost every piece of the list has a synergy with the others:
The H³ gives an attack roll bonus to everything, which is already strong alone (Maulers at MAT7 are a just cause for despair). It's a good combined arms piece, able to inflict a variety of damage pattern to almost all targets: it can harm a heavy, lit a handful of grunts on fire, and break most lights in one round. Its only downside is that it's not very precise, but most of the time I just use it as a battering ram for the feat turn: killing it during Borka's feat is harsh, and I generally go to great lengths to hinder the few models that can do it (Sentinels mostly). And even if you opponent drop it, chances are that you have a lot of stationary targets to bash. The Stumbling Drunk aura is really good too, especially during feat turn, as it will discourage almost every KTC tentative for the sheer randomness of the thing (add the counter-charges in the mix and enjoy).
Rök is an outraging brute alone, a worst one with Rage, Lanyssa is his BFF, and did I say that he's MAT8 with the H³ ? He can also take advantage of the H³ and the Elder to have an very efficient spray, that you can apply from a long range with Lanyssa. Bonus point: Rök can spray using any friendly model to have the best angle available without risking anything, as you whole list is immune to frost damage. And as Rök is always Stumbling Drunk, you can also use it to hold a zone alone or bait resources away from the H³.
The Pyre Troll has multiple usages, the first being to allow Borka to hit at POW 21 if the opponent hit him last turn. Which is scary, I've recently broken both the Scyrah BE then the Colossal (then Yssiria) in 3 consecutive rounds that way (camping 0 in the middle of the table and being mostly safe from danger). Second, once Raged, it can be a fairly efficient missile to drop on an unsuspecting target, or it can use both H³ bonuses (Oil and Veteran Leader) to either apply damage easily (the boost from Oil meaning your Pyre is mostly fury-free) or snipe an important solo (very efficient from turn 3, as you list is usually in the middle of the table), or it can simply light the NFE on fire and let them to the work. And, finally, it's not a really vital piece, so you can sacrifice him to contest. Especially annoying for non-fire immune opponents.
The two Maulers are pivotal pieces that you can use as they were meant to be: horrible beatsticks with a free rage on Borka every turn, or even Primal if you need a MAT9 Mauler (DEF14 ? Not a problem.) Both threat extenders not being Rush-dependent also means that your opponent can't count on forcing Rush to hinder their damage output. And counter-charging Maulers are always a valid threat, especially MAT7 Maulers. Depending on personal taste or the opponent (ADR, right ?) you can swap one Mauler for a Earthborn for more tank, or a Brawler for more fun (Counter-Charge + Relatiatory on either the Brawler or Borka is probably more fun than should be legal, considering the Knockdown of Borka's mount). You can also change it for two lights, a Basher would give access to Chiller for more fun: get Chiller for free, charge with Borka, do the impact, knock the target down, swap for Flamming Fist and get POW16 WM slaps in you opponent's face (Butcher approved, doesn't require the Elder SPD bonus so you can get farther, or the opponent to hit you beforehand to hit hard).
The Runebearer allows you to spread a little more, spray something (H³ bonus for a MA7 \o/ ), swap an animus on Borka (see the fun on the previous paragraph). With the Elder bonus, it can run for 14" and contest something or take a flag you opponent wasn't watching.
The NFE can take the round zones, are a simple and efficient danger for your opponent. Their role is generally limited to dying first as you opponent can't let them live, so the rest of you list can close on safely. And a lone survivor can still do a little damage, kill a solo, hide to take a zone, contest, etc. Depending on the situation, you can use both H³ bonuses (as the Pyre Troll) to alleviate the need to light them up everytime. And with 6 of them, the Elder bonus for more range, etc, you can do a real lot of damage if your opponent forget them.
Finally, Valka is mostly an end-game piece, his very long list of combat rules added to the others bonuses of the list make him a real pain in the ass at the end of the game (ARM21 with Unyielding, Relatiatory Strike, etc), and he can protect your backline or remove something from you path with it's two high-MAT WM weapons. And native counter-charge make him a really good scenario piece in the end of the game, as you opponent can't simply contest a zone where Valka is with a single solo/grunt.
There is still a few particular lists that I couldn't take with him, namely Lylyth 1 with double Raptors, as they can ignore the feat completely and stay out of range while removing a heavy every turn. I didn't tried the match again but I think it can have a match if handled properly (probably need ballz of steel though.)
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Post by greenjello on Jan 15, 2018 21:25:47 GMT
What's the second range extender on the Mauler's please? I only see Lanyssa.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jan 15, 2018 21:33:55 GMT
With Mauler becoming Northkin with Borka 2, Northkin Elder gives +1 speed.
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Post by Ajax on Jan 15, 2018 21:36:43 GMT
Elwinar, awesome write-up, thanks for taking the time out to type that out. I'm glad to see you doing some playtesting with the Hooch Hauler, it's one of those pieces that people seem to be struggling to make fit, but your list looks great.
The lack of a fell caller scares me a bit, since Borka really wants that +2 mat to close out games, but I suppose with the HHH, you have a decent substitute. I'm gonna have to try your list out, I think a lot of people are underestimating the HHH at the moment (probably because of the lack of accessibility from the cost...).
You said that you're having some trouble with true shooty lists, do you think Borka2 carries enough weight on his own as an all comers list, if you can find a suitable pairing to cover the shooty matchup?
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Post by elwinar on Jan 15, 2018 22:35:10 GMT
The lack of Fell Caller is, IMHO, fine if you can ensure that your H³ survive most of the game, and even then Borka's bear can KD most of the targets with a high DEF. If I were to find the points for a FCH nonetheless, I would remove Valka as both can have the same kind of role and fit in the free solo slot. That, or tweak the battlegroup to include a Basher, which Borka himself can use for a somewhat equivalent bonus even if it means hitting a little softer or having to swap animus once the target KD (which the Runebearer allows for free anyway). I've played the H³ as a proxy since the CID, rest assured that my whole meta is aware that it's a nightmare to deal with and not happy I get the real model on the table . The trouble isn't some much true shooty lists than shooty lists able to both ignore stealth, remove one heavy per turn reliably, and stay out of range. I've nothing against loosing a heavy or even two on the approach if Borka can have it's hearth content of drunken bashing afterwards, but the combo of Seraph removing stealth from the feat, Lylyth applying Parasite then 10 shots POW 10 poison from RNG 12 then reposition 5 to stay 17" away from all threat is a real pain in the ass. I'm not saying there is nothing to do, but it is certainly not an easy (or even) match. I think a few Cygnar lists like Kara Sloan, maybe Brisbane would shred it to pieces too (nothing new, really ), but I surprisingly don't have many Cygnar players in my meta that still accept to play with me when I get the big guns out (sic).
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