gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Mar 30, 2018 9:40:03 GMT
It is always a big discussion about min or max stone. If you brick with both units of champs the question would be if they could draw line of sight. But i could see the reasons for a max stone. In your current build you lack a bit of magic weapons and upkeep removal. If fighting cryx this could be an issue. Perhaps Eilish instead of Llanyssa or a Sorccer could be an option. No, it's never a good choice. Even with Gunnbjorn I ended up maxing the stone it felt so bad. I'm not even sure if it'd be worth it in a Double King list. Also Lanyssa DOES have magical attacks just like Eilish so I'm not sure why he'd be preferable here. There's basically no debuffs I particularly care about removing the turn after they're applied - if they Parasite or Crippling Grasp champs they're probably all going to die anyways. Rebuke is the only one that I care about and pretty much any caster with Rebuke would be a Kolgrima matchup anyways.
|
|
|
Post by deviantcad on Mar 30, 2018 15:36:12 GMT
But I don't need blood boon that much. Every turn I'm dumping 3+ into the stone as is. Once I've maxed out the krielstone I'm actively trying to burn my fury, I'm not trying to maximize fury efficiency. That is my point. With a GK you cast blood boon then have 2 fury. With a bomber you can farstrike, boost to hit, then depending on the targets boost damage or to hit/ damage on the bounce. It gives you a good outlet. Both ways you get out blood boon, but with the bomber you can scaple out support on the turns before you need to jack hammer or guided hand. It also give you some anti-incorporial f you took a cold stone or wanted to use +1 str. I guess you would take a mistspeaker with the GK over eilish then so that point breaks even. Over the course of the game 1-2 models a turn adds up.
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Mar 31, 2018 6:27:34 GMT
Thats fair. I prefer holding Madrak further back and having a non-negotiable anchor that makes getting concealment easier.
|
|
|
Post by allinontrolls on Apr 7, 2018 23:37:31 GMT
Played your list twice today. Double champions+ gk really attrition your opponent to death. Both games their were still champs + gk left and my opponent was completly destroyed. Not sure which bad matchups you got after the nemo leap nerf.
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 9, 2018 21:34:46 GMT
Yeah I'm going to try it into Rasheth tonight. I've been having problems dropping Kolgrima into double turtle Rasheth (castigate is PAIN), and Madrak is almost universally better into their other list, so I'll feel a lot better if this version can be dropped into Skorne.
|
|
|
Post by allinontrolls on Apr 10, 2018 5:37:51 GMT
I played ragnor vs rashesh twice in a tournament that was not really a good matchup. I am thinking to switch kolgrima into boh so I am able to play this matchup into rashesh.
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 10, 2018 6:28:47 GMT
Lost but just barely (Madrak charged a mostly dead Siege Anamantarax which if he killed would have basically guaranteed the game and left it on 2). I think there's game once you get real deep up in there but you need to know how to play around the breaths of corruption (don't B2B the champs if they aren't getting into melee that turn) and hold the feat for heal rather than stopping them from charging their battle engines. I'm going to play it more between now and Kingdomcon next weekend but I'm cautiously optimistic.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Apr 10, 2018 6:50:09 GMT
It feels like the double champ double min warder variant has decent game in to this. The breaths are a problem though i guess...
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 10, 2018 15:53:30 GMT
Those breaths are BRUTAL. I lost 2 bears on top of 1 to him arcing through a slinger. Admittedly he cranked the damage a fair bit but it's my fault for even letting him roll the dice.
The shots actually aren't even that bad. Between even ground and concealment he has a hard time getting value off of his shots even with CRA. Once you get in melee it's bad news bears for him.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 11, 2018 2:51:28 GMT
List I doodled up on a bathroom break. Surprised I didn't come up with this before. Not sure if champs are worth giving up a screen in the form of max raiders or double fire eaters but I think this bears consideration. War Room Army Trollblood - Madrak Champions Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Glacier King - PC: 35 (Battlegroup Points Used: 29) Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0 Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 0 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 THEME: Storm of the North --- GENERATED : 03/29/2018 13:40:16 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21 What have you since decided as to whether Raiders might serve better than the second unit of Champs?
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 11, 2018 5:27:50 GMT
The lists are... different. I think double champs has a LOOOT more meat and is probably one of the best grinding bricks in the game - 16/18 pow 14 weaponmasters with sanguine bond will not get out-valued by much. That said, raiders can kill low quality infantry super efficiently and are a nasty jam line.
I beat Zaadesh2 tonight with that list (was gonna play double turtle but he thought Zaadesh would be better). He messed up his clouds and let me kill his Agonizer and indirectly charge an aradus with one set of bears (left it on one box), and walk to kill an Archidon with my other set of bears. After a turn of more than an average # of tough rolls he concedes with his only models remaining being a Gladiator, Krea, Paingivers and support solos.
If I can get this list to beat Rasheth comfortably (going to be dojoing it more in the coming week) I think this is better than the Raiders configuration. Better into Cryx, better into Skorne, better into Minions, Khador, and probably PoM. I think this also beats the tar out of BoH Madrak - sure BoH denies tough but I'd rather just hit first rather than gamble on getting >1/3 models to survive.
|
|
|
Post by allinontrolls on Apr 11, 2018 15:39:36 GMT
I am not sure if your Madrak1 list has to beat Rasheth. As soon as the cid for nemo will be live i think you could switch your kolgrima build to something like Kolgrima in BoH. Which should be really playable into Skorne.
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 11, 2018 16:38:53 GMT
I am not sure if your Madrak1 list has to beat Rasheth. As soon as the cid for nemo will be live i think you could switch your kolgrima build to something like Kolgrima in BoH. Which should be really playable into Skorne. A couple counterpoints: Firstly, that change almost certainly won't go live until LnL. I have 2-3 WMW qualifiers between now and then so I need to be testing to what the game is now rather than testing for what will work 2+ months from now. Secondly, I'm not sold on Kolgrima BoH beating Cygnar. I'd have to see the matchup more but H3 seems like a YOOJ problem for that. At least with PoD kolgrima I can spray down trenchers with relative impunity. That's not to say that Kolgrima BoH isn't good just that I think if you want to play that (or a melee oriented Kolgrima SotN shell) it requires something VERY different from a Madrak infantry brick to be paired with it.
|
|
|
Post by allinontrolls on Apr 11, 2018 17:17:07 GMT
okay i agree to your counterpoints if you still plan for nemo3. My ideas where in a world post nemo3. If we stay at our current meta wont be Eborka not an even better partner for madrak?
|
|
gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
|
Post by gdnerd on Apr 11, 2018 20:04:31 GMT
Sorry I'm not sure I follow, you're saying you want to do Kolgrima/Borka2 or Borka2/Madrak1?
|
|