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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 13:34:16 GMT
I think you ambushed on the correct side of the table. Consider: --I feel I had adequate infantry clearing on both sides. Obviously on the one flank I had the Nyss, Valkyries, and Gun Boar to handle the WoO. But on the other I had Rorsh (AoE 4, 2 shots), 2 Gun Boars, Valkyries, and Brine with Overtake. --The one side had a Pureblood to contest, and was within scoring range of the Skinwalkers. The other flank had effectively nothing. Had the WoO not come in that side, you would have given me uncontested reign over that flank, and the Nyss could possibly have run over the Woldwyrd that killed Midas (14" threat with Vengeance, Valkyries can grab the zone after they move out of it). --The benefit of pictures and hindsight is that most problems can be addressed with positioning. Consider: you killed 4 Nyss the previous turn, leaving me with 6. Those 6 have to do the lion's share of the work versus 12 WoO. You know they have high Mat and Vengeance, so rather than jam, put your WoO outside of 4" so I don't get any 2 for 1 trades. Then you can make a front line of 3 or so anchored by the wall, with the rest at the back of the zone to counter charge in. Because you have reach I cannot easily get past those models, and if you spread them out a bit it makes it hard for the Gun Boar to clear them out with blast damage. Then you are able to leverage your superior numbers to kill off a more expensive unit. The thing is Even if I stay back, lets assume you vengeance into the zone, aim and shoot my wolves you kill 5 or 6 thanks to rat 8 and hunter. Then I am left with 5 or 6 wolves who charge in. You probably position in layers as well with the vengeance move So I cannot get to all the nyss and kill another 4. You vengeance in, kill another 4 wolves now that I am committed leaving me with 2 or 3 models who can attack (i am excluding the banner). I try to hit def 14 models with mat 6. I think the nyss just win that fight in most situations. especially considering you have Valkyries on that side of the board as well. Also If I add a grymlin swarm like I need to I can happily camp in the left zone for a long while because nyss lack magic weapons. Which Is why I am adding a grymlin swarm to the army My whole idea behind flooding the right side of the table would be to overwhelm you with choices of models to fight. I commit the skinwalkers all the way instead of keeping 2 back, I leave the wolves spaced out and behind brine with one or 2 sacrificial guys to jam him up and spread out with the rest. Then you have to kill all the skinwalkers, all the wolves, and my wyrd with half your army. I feel like me spreading out across the table is what lost me the game (that and horrible positioning...) But the more I think about this game the more I see my positioning errors with the list. Its something I need to work on as I am not used to running units as much. In mark 3 I mostly ran beast heavy.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 15:07:12 GMT
Yet another battle report for you guys! This time into another circle list! I am still running the same kromac 1 list I have been! But first some notes: I forgot my tokens so I was using fire tokens as fury as well as some large gems my opponent graced me with! I was using wooden tokens to represent spells so sorry if that gets confusion. Opponents list was (to the best of my memory) Una2: Call of the Wild -Storm Raptor -2 Goraxes -6 Scarsfells -wilder Lord of the Feast Bog trog mist speaker (using CiD rules) wayfarer shifting stones Scenario and Deployment My opponent wins the rolls and chooses table sides. I deploy mostly to the right side of the table. Planning to play cagey around the central house and use warpath to threaten my opponent. The issue this game will be triggering warpath. I hope to grind out a scenario win over time as my primary goal. Turn 1: Circle I run just about everything very aggressively Kromac casts warpath and puts Inviolable resolve on the skiwnalkers. He moves up towards the right zone preparing to take the flag. Other Circle: Also lots of running. Una puts up HoF on the thunderchicken. His whole army stays more than 14" away from each table edge. (to continue in next post) IMG_3389.JPG (119.4 KB) IMG_3388.JPG (111.47 KB) IMG_3390.JPG (117.8 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 15:13:15 GMT
Turn2: Circle Time to get work done. Kromac upkeeps warpath and Inviolable resolve. WOlves ambush on my right flank because they will all die horribly and meaninglessly on the left flank. Kromac walks up onto the hill, Casts wild aggression and primal on the stalker. Stones port him onto the flag. Woldwyrd with the grey base waddles around the house in range of the wilder, it takes all 3 shots but he kills her triggering warpath on the stalker. Stalker charges the scarsfells behind the forest thanks to tracker Murders them both easily (I didn't need primal because I rolled so well...sadness.) I use warpath to hide the wyrd back behind the house. The Pureblood sprays the gorax and does a few points of damage.) Skinwalkers run and jam using the front two to hopefully eat at least 3 gryphon activation's because arm 20 is a thing. Flappy Circle: Una upkeeps hand of fate on the thunderchicken. Thanks to some flubbed dice the 2 skinwalkers end up taking some bird activation's. The thunderchicken shoots the stalker, kills 3 wolves with leaps and leaves the stalker on a few boxes. I misplaced the stalker and the gorax who was damaged can draw LoS. He casts primal on himself, charges the stalker and kills him with his initials and a bought attack. *sigh* stupid mistakes. More birds do things. A primalled gryphon charges my pureblood and almost one rounds it due to some really good dice. (no flank btw just primal) Una tries shooting the purebloos to finish it off but fails leaving it on 1 box. Lord of the feast bases the left flag and the mist speaker chills behind the forest. Score Kromac:1 Una:1 Turn 3: Circle: Kromac upkeeps warpath. I charge about 6 wolves of orboros into the grypon. a few are in the back arc. All but one of them miss needing 7's or less....whoohooo they repo into an obnoxious position. What a waste of power swell. Kromac moves up, casts wild aggression on the pureblood and heals it. Prueblood kills the bird and regens. using warpath to move back behind the house. Skinwalkers charge the objective and 1 bird they pop minifeat, kill the gryphon and leave the objective on a few boxes. My argus warpaths off the dead gryphon. Charges the objective and kills it. Blue Woldwyrd take pot shots at the healthy gorax and don't kill it. Shifting stones port around the beasts behind the house. (to continue in next post) IMG_3391.JPG (122.67 KB) IMG_3393.JPG (123.83 KB) IMG_3392.JPG (132.3 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 15:13:27 GMT
Crazy Bird Lady Una 2 drops HoF. Gorax frenzies onto the poor wolf of orboros in the woods. (another positioning mistake....stupid stupid...) Gryohon, Lord of the Feast and thunderchicken kill the rest of the skinwalkers. Other gorax charges the blue wyrd but the wyrd survives with a crippled mind thanks to a few missed attacks some flubbed damage rolls. Una tries to kill the argus with shooting but fails. shifting stones port in my zone to cotnest. Score: Kromac:5 Una:3 Turn 4: Circle: Kromac upkeeps warpath and wild aggression. Wolves of orboros charge the shifting stones. CMA and leeav one on 4 boxes.Grey Wyrd kills the gorax and warpaths back behind the house. Blue damaged wyrd moves back takes some shots at the other gorax and the shifting stone but fails to kill. Argus casts doppler back and kills the gryphon that engaging him. Shifting stones ports pure blood over to the gorax and shifting stone in the zone and kills them both. I use warpath to move behind the forest then regen for a few points of damage. Kromac heals the pureblood some more and camps 2. (By the end of this turn My clock runs out but we play it out.)Score: Kromac:7 Una:5 Slightly less fuzzy circle: Una puts HoF back onto the thunderchicken. She shoots and kills the argus and feats. Lord of the feast shoots a shifitng stone and kills it while contesting my flag. Thunderbird walks into melee with the grey wyrd. Kills it and leaps do some damage to the gorax. The last stone ports into the zone to contest. His last gryphon stays in the zone. Score: Kromac: 7 Una2: 7 (To be continued in next post) IMG_3394.JPG (120.13 KB) IMG_3395.JPG (123.22 KB) IMG_3396.JPG (124.43 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 15:13:39 GMT
Turn 5: Circle: Kromac upkeeps warpath and wild aggression. My gorax charges the Lord of the feast and fails to kill him. The woldwyrd Does a good chunk of damage to the HoF thunderchicken. Kromac kills the Lord of the feast with a boosted rift. Feats. Jumps into melee with the chicke, lights up some boosted damage rolls and takes a big plasma nimbus damage rolls from the chicken. The Pureblood finishes off the chicken and I warpath the wyrd a bit. Wolves of orboros kill the last stone and contest his flag but cannot get far enough to contest the zone and still be in command. Score: Kromac: 8 Una: 8 Better Painted Circle: Mist speaker fails to kill the contesting wolf of orbros. Gryphon kills the contesting wolf and sprints back. Una bases the flag and hides behind the forest. Score: Kromac: 9 Una2:10 Turn 6: Circle: Kromac drops warpath. Bases the flag and heals the pureblood some more. Wolves kill the mist speaker and jam/contest. Shifting stones Contest as does the gorax. Pureblood regens and hides behind the house riling for 2. Score: Kromac: 11 Una2: 10 We play it out till turn 7. I have pictures but I don't feel the need to delve too much into the turns. Basically It ends with me continuing to contest his zone and flag. We end turn 7 with the score: Kromac: 17 Una2: 11 Ill try to post feedback for this report today IMG_3399.JPG (129.06 KB) IMG_3397.JPG (130.08 KB) IMG_3398.JPG (123.69 KB)
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Post by Nahualli on Nov 9, 2017 15:34:10 GMT
Nice to see the battle reports coming today, it was a blast to play against macdaddy and his Kromac list. It was scary to fight against my own lovely tricks, specially against Wyrds, they game me a lot of headaches. I should have lost my Bird early on, I made a position mistake on turn 1, forgot about ambush, and macdaddy allowed me to change my location so we could have a proper game, but on the rush I had it very far in the back, causing it to not be very relevant until the end. And later, he was just millimeters away from jump assassination, I was not careful on my position, I hate myself for that, given that I love to use Kromac1. I guess its a different experience using the tools than fighting against the tools, the memory trigger is not the same. I am very glad I have these mirror matches, there is no one else in my local store I can train with like this, I hope we can find the time for more matches .
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 17:27:57 GMT
Ok feedback time. Fist off had a blast playing the game! Thanks to Nahualli for being a great opponent. I think I played this game fairly well. I need to work on clock management and I made a few mistakes ut overall I think I played patiently and was rewarded. I also feel that I made the right choice in my wolves of orboros ambush this time. Opting to go for a scenario push on my side of the table and using terrain to my advantage. I really wish I had a solo for the flag this game. I was really limited thanks to Kromac needing to base the flag for points Some mistakes: 1: Stalker positioning. I did not expect the gorax to charge my stalker. I was careless with positioning and should have moved back into the edge of the forest in my zone. I did not need to warp strength and should have warped prowl this would have kept my stalker alive. 2: I warped strength with the stalker when I should have warped prowl Had I done that and Hid inside the forest I could have easily survived the gorax charge. 3: Mis-positioned wyrds. I played my wyrds a little carelessly and did not respect my opponents walking threat with his thunderchicken. It cost me a wyrd and could have cost me the game. 4: Time management. Clock was funky this game, we paused a few times and we forgot to start the clock up once on my opponents turn. I took too long planning out my turn 2 and 3 and it caused me to have a rapid drop in clock. Now on to the next report!
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 18:55:43 GMT
Another report coming at ya today! This time kromac 1 faces Tanith in a very interesting secret masters list. As with the other game my tokens were forgotten so I was using fire/corrosion tokens and some crystal gems for fury and small wooden bases for spells. His List: Tanith -4 Wyrds 2 Fulcrums 2 Druids with UA Shifting stones gallows grove swamp gobber bellows crew wayfarer Scenario and Deployment:Scenario was recon2. He won the roll off again and chose table sides. I deployed mostly to the left as there was almost 0 cover on the right side of the board. Once again I find myself really missing having a solo to score the flag... Turn 1: Kromac1:Lots of running. I once again move up very aggressive to threaten the board and keep him honest. Kromac casts warpath and discards his fury. Moving up towards the wall. Tanith: His turn he moves up,using gobbers to pop a cloud and hidding his wyrd line behind the wall on my right flank. He keeps everything more than 14" away from the table edges for ambush. Duids on the left all pop clouds but the druids on the right run so they can not be in ambush range and still be relevant. (continue in next post) IMG_3406.jpg (126.65 KB) IMG_3405.jpg (130.76 KB) IMG_3404.jpg (116.8 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 18:56:09 GMT
Turn 2:Kromac:Wolves of orboros do not ambush as I feel they will die by getting shot off the table by the fulcrum (this was a mistake) Kromac upkeeps warpath. He activates and moves behind the wall putting wild aggression on the pureblood he also casts bestial. The stalker charges a druid in range. kills him and another 2 druids and uses sprint and warpath to move back. to exactly where he was before he charged. He warps prowl as well. SKiwnalkers run up the board (this was a mistake). My pureblood kills a druid with his spray and warpaths back. My grey wyrd takes some shots at the fulcrum and hides behind the forest. the rest of my army just positions and braces for his shooting. Tanith:He takes the bait and sends a wyrd to shoot at the pureblood. He spikes 2 damage rolls and hurts it pretty bad. The fulcrum tries to finish off the pureblood but fails leaving it on a couple boxes (that was close...) kromac, the pureblood, and a shifting stone are on fire. Tanith afflicts the skinwalkers (needing to cast twice because she missed the first time) she shoots the alpha and does a few damage. The wyrds and the fulcrum eat the whole unit and I realize I am an idiot....Druids make a wall of clouds to screen tanith and his wayfarer bases the flag. Score: Kromac: 0 Tanith: 1 Turn 3:Kromac:Well time to recover from that horrible mistake...what the heck was I thinking? Wolves ambush on the right flank. Kromac upkeeps wild aggression and warpath. Pureblood charges and kills the fulcrum using all his attacks and warping strength. Stalker Launches accross the table into 1 wyrd. Thanks to mat 6 leaves it on a few boxes after buying to full...*sigh* Luckily he kills a druid! woohoo. Argus warpaths up. Gorax primals the argus. Argus charges the wyrd that shot the pureblood and kills it. My blue wyrd charges through the forest at the wyrd in melee with the stalker and kills it. The stalker warpaths forward...out of kromacs control...doh...Grey wyrd charges and kills a couple druids. I use warpath to move both wierds deeper. Wolves of orboros run and engage things. Kromac sits behind the wall like an idiot and camps 2. Stones port around to be supporting with fury next turn...ugh more stupidity on my part with positioning because I was trying to keep my clock down....*slaps forehead* Score: Kromac 1: Tanith: 1 (continued in next post) IMG_3407.JPG (135.49 KB) IMG_3409.JPG (130.67 KB) IMG_3408.JPG (141.08 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 18:56:26 GMT
TanithOk so I had a ok retaliation turn. My opponent backs off to avoid bestial and starts shooting things. He manages to kill the grey wyrd with wyrd, tanith and a boosted fireball from the fulcrum. The fulcrum kills a few wolves of orboros. Another wyrd and the wayfarer kill the argus. Druids on the right flank flail uselessly at wolves of orbros. Score: Kromac:2 Tanith:1 Turn 4Kromac
Kromac upkeeps warpath because once again I am a nummy and just do it out of habit...My stalker out of control passes his threshold check...wow lucked out there. I charge the fulcrum with some wolves and do an ok amount of damage. The gorax puts primal on the stalker and hoots a bunch. The stalker walks to the fulcrum and leaves it on one box. He is engaging both wyrds. The blue wyrd shoots the fulcrum but fails to kill it. I have to use my pureblood to spray it and finish it off...*sigh* After killing the fulcrum the pureblood repositions into the square zone. For some stupid reason I move kromac out from behind the wall cast bestial. He charges the wayfarer kills him. Feats and spirnts back to the stones who port him...behind the forest...oh boy...silly silly kromac.... Score: Kromac:4 Tanith:1 Tanith
He uses the druid UA to try and knockdown the stalker as a mat 10 P+S 18 free strike is bad for assassination run plans. I try and shoot him with my wierd remembering witch hunter needing a 7 and miss. He needs a 7 to hit my stalker and rolls exactly a 7 knocking him down. The wyrd then blows up kromac with his 3 shots. Moral of the story....hide behind a wall when you are up so far on scenario and don't upkeep something you don't need...*sigh* Feedback coming soon! IMG_3411.jpg (153.06 KB) IMG_3412.jpg (155.49 KB) IMG_3410.jpg (132.09 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2017 21:08:41 GMT
Feedback time!
Ok so I made a good number of mistakes this game. It was not all in one turn but...well what lost me the game happened all in one turn haha.
Ok so in order: 1: Not ambushing turn2. I really should have ambushed turn 2. I could have saturated that half of the board with threats and been not as scared of the fulcrum. I could have engaged with a wolf or 2 and kept the rest of the unit spread out and backed up. That may have saved my skinalkers from getting obliterated. 2: I should have sprint/warpathed the stalker into the central forest and warped prowl after killing the druids. Had I don't that I could have easily Threatened both sides of the table with him and been relatively safe. Def 16 means woldwyrds need 10's without purgation and he had no way to ignore stealth. 3: I should have given the skinwalkers more support. I left them hung out to dry and lost them with little gain for their sacrifice. Mistakes 1 and 2 would have alleviated this. 4: Positioning errors everywhere. Mostly warpathing the stalker and wyrd out of control. That was just a dodo mistake I wont make again. hopefully... 5: Upkeeping warpath and not just playing scenario. I had no plans for warpath that turn and all it did was make kromac an easy target. I could have easily kept playing back scoring points letting him feed me contesting pieces each turn. Once both fulcrums were dead, he had lost a lot of hitting power in the list.
Overall I managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Made a lot of dodo mistakes that game. I am fairly surprised how well the list was able to play into a gun-line Hopefully I can get more reps in. I am changing the list to give me solos. A solo allows me to play for flags and contest more easily. I have decided to try out this variation of the list:
Kromac1: -pureblood -stalker -gorax -2 wyrds Max skinwalkers with UA Max wolves with UA grymlin swarm shifting stones with UA gobber bellows crew.
The argus has been pretty usefull but a good opponent won't put their caster in kromacs stagnant 13" threat range so doppler bark is not needed as much. Adding a grymlin swarm gives me an excellent piece for controlling flags and an even more excellent contesting model.
Adding the gobbers allows me to provide cover for my army and trigger prowl on the stalker on the approach.
Adding the stonekeeper allows my stone unit to spread out more and synergizes with the gobbers thanks to prowl.
I am hoping that these changes will give the list more scenario presence and allow me to play cagey while still contesting zones and flags.
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Post by Nahualli on Nov 9, 2017 21:53:43 GMT
I think your changes make sense. On my Kromac1 Devourer's Host I also have the gobbers and gremlin swarm. The cloud also blocks LOS to Kromac if there is shooting risk. Bestial stops magical attacks towards the swarm, making them less killable. I have also made changes to my Tanith list based on this experience, I removed the Wayfarer for the Mist Speaker, he is so important on some matches. I feel very awkward moving the two fulcrums, but still going to test more games with the list as is. As a variant, I could have a Pureblood instead of one fulcrum, but since our meta doesn't have a lot of buffing upkeeps I think it's really not needed. I would only do the change if I feel too slow with the two fulcrums.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 13, 2017 17:22:24 GMT
Yet another battle report coming at you today! I continue to embarrass myself with silly mistakes! But I hope you guys learn from my pitiful showing...maybe I should just stick to constructs? Lol...speaking of witch krueger 2 thread incoming soon! Hopefully I can type it after work also is anyone getting anything from these reports? Its been pretty quiet on here so I hope I am not just blowing up the forums for no reason
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Post by Forsaken on Nov 15, 2017 16:42:58 GMT
Keep them coming Mac!
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Post by kuririnad on Nov 16, 2017 1:16:15 GMT
Yeah, Mac, keep em coming! I hope to get back out to Comics and Gaming at some point, and so maybe I will get to witness your prowess from the other side of the table.
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