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Post by phantasmagorium on Apr 10, 2017 19:15:41 GMT
Caine3 is good. Use more Chargers.
Like, it's not even his feat. Chargers + Calamity = winning. That said, I am looking forward to the Trencher theme for him.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 10, 2017 20:54:51 GMT
Caine3 is good. Use more Chargers. Like, it's not even his feat. Chargers + Calamity = winning. That said, I am looking forward to the Trencher theme for him. That is the maximum threat play, though. Relying on Pow 14s while leaving Caine within 14" of an opposing model. The Charger may be cheap to run, but its not free and he still needs to hand some out.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 10, 2017 22:02:47 GMT
That would be a counter-intuitive rule if all of your initials had to go against one set of targets and your additional attacks could go anywhere. It should be all one way or all the other (ie you can only make attacks against models in melee, or you can make them against anything you like). But it wouldn't be the first rule to produce a silly result on the tabletop! You're making a charge attack with a ranged weapon. I think we're past the point of no return regarding counter-intuitive at this point anyway.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Apr 11, 2017 4:47:17 GMT
Personally it's the RAT 10 POW 9 Armour Piercing Hunter shots with boosted damage that worries me about Caine 3.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 11, 2017 7:18:46 GMT
Caine3 is good. Use more Chargers. Like, it's not even his feat. Chargers + Calamity = winning. That said, I am looking forward to the Trencher theme for him. That is the maximum threat play, though. Relying on Pow 14s while leaving Caine within 14" of an opposing model. The Charger may be cheap to run, but its not free and he still needs to hand some out. POW 15 at max Synergy and fully boosted POW 15's kill casters, hell, POW 12's kill casters and it's 17 with Calamity. About additional attacks being able to target models at range being counter-intuitive. The rule literally says that the restriction is only on initials, so it makes sense to me.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 11, 2017 10:05:19 GMT
About additional attacks being able to target models at range being counter-intuitive. The rule literally says that the restriction is only on initials, so it makes sense to me. Has anyone thought about asking the rules forums? It would certainly end the matter one way or the other. Here's a ruling that seems relevant. (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?263388-Gunfighter-and-Multiple-Targets) (Not meaning to pick on you Gamingdevil)
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Post by phantasmagorium on Apr 11, 2017 14:39:23 GMT
Caine3 is good. Use more Chargers. Like, it's not even his feat. Chargers + Calamity = winning. That said, I am looking forward to the Trencher theme for him. That is the maximum threat play, though. Relying on Pow 14s while leaving Caine within 14" of an opposing model. The Charger may be cheap to run, but its not free and he still needs to hand some out. No, it's basically free in terms of focus. I've done it a few times now, and if you've got Calamity on the thing that matters and enough chargers, you don't have to hand out any focus for boosts. Raw volume of RAT 8 POW 14s will kill any caster in the game, and most heavies too. The only issue is hard anti-shooting casters (windstorm and windwall, specifically). Personally it's the RAT 10 POW 9 Armour Piercing Hunter shots with boosted damage that worries me about Caine 3. Charger is better for his gameplan. You get more of them, and they each shoot twice hitting just about as hard overall. Volume of fire is important for burning through transfers / powerfields. When the Trencher theme comes out, I could see swapping to Grenadiers if the point discount is right. There's a lot that the Trencher package offers Caine3 that I don't bother with because Heavy Metal offsets his WJP. Caine3 does not attrition. He is 100% an assassination caster, and he brings everything needed to pull it off against the vast majority of warcasters - Calamity, Shadowfire, a damage and accuracy boosting feat, and forest/cloud/stealth removal for his whole battlegroup. If you don't like plan "all the Chargers", there's a few alternatives. When I don't want to proxy (I can't afford another half-dozen Chargers at the moment), I'm currently using a mix of Chargers, Hunters and Defenders that's working out pretty decently. Edit: Though now I'm playing around with the idea of using him in more of a support role for a heavier army (Lances and stuff). Lancers can get Calamity out from a safe distance, and a smaller BG can still be an assassination threat in the back pocket. Hmm.
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Post by gobber on Apr 11, 2017 21:09:48 GMT
This link has the right of it. Gunfighter ordinarily carries no restrictions on what you target, but when you charge your initial ranged attacks are restricted to your melee range. If you charged and have no targets in melee range, you lose your initial attacks. You may then proceed to buy additional ranged attacks targeting whatever you please.
This limits Tucker's assassination method to 2 shots, 3 if you brought reinholdt, with two focus available to boost damage rolls. Still a great trick, but two boosted 15's isn't terribly reliable if your target camped anything.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 19, 2017 12:15:43 GMT
I just wanted to add my 2 cents on a few points. 1) There is no way that MK 3 themes will ever be as gawdawful as MK 2 themes were. 2) Most factions don't have great internal balance. A lot of themes are not balanced very well against others in their factions. BUT, at the same time, a LOT of stuff is just plain underrated or misunderstood. Hell, we only recently started using the Slag Troll, let alone the Storm Troll. 3) Yeah, you do get 15-20 free points... that can only be spent on solos, UA, and weapon crews that are usually over-costed to begin with. I think that might even be deliberate so that we are inclined to only take those solos when we can get them for free.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 19, 2017 13:29:44 GMT
If you don't like plan "all the Chargers", there's a few alternatives. When I don't want to proxy (I can't afford another half-dozen Chargers at the moment), I'm currently using a mix of Chargers, Hunters and Defenders that's working out pretty decently. Edit: Though now I'm playing around with the idea of using him in more of a support role for a heavier army (Lances and stuff). Lancers can get Calamity out from a safe distance, and a smaller BG can still be an assassination threat in the back pocket. Hmm. Cyclones are also fairly cheap and good for volume of fire, and they can maybe do a throw in a pinch. Calamity can justify bringing one Lancer. Sometimes the run fails and you need a backup plan. I actually killed Caine 3 that way once. Or maybe the Lancer trades up, holds a flag, blocks a charge lane, runs off on a flank, fries a cortex. SPD 6, DEF 13, ARM 18, and 2-inch melee is not so bad for a light jack. I think the Lancer really only suffers in comparison to Thorn, and as you guys explore your themes you'll start using it more. Arc Nodes, in general, are not quite as cost-effective as they were before, but I think that is intentional and even a good thing. Granted, I'm big on tactical flexibility because I play fast & loose, but is there any reason not to mix and match a bit? 4x Charger and 1x Lancer still leaves room for 3x Cyclone or even a Stormwall. That might not be a bad idea after all. It gives Caine a strong start to "Range-rgy" and also a mobile hiding place, especially since you're activating it right after him anyway.
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 19, 2017 20:22:25 GMT
3) Yeah, you do get 15-20 free points... that can only be spent on solos, UA, and weapon crews that are usually over-costed to begin with. I think that might even be deliberate so that we are inclined to only take those solos when we can get them for free. That's not really a defence. If something is overcosted, then correct it with errata, don't patch with theme forces. Who loses if a solo is costed so that you'd consider taking it for the listed price?
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