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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 14, 2017 2:43:36 GMT
Is anyone using Sorscha 2?
So much about her now just makes me mad.
1. Why doesn't Shatterstorm itself grant magic attacks? 2. Why is her feat an aura not a pulse? 3. Why did she lose freezing grip? And Elite Cadre? And the warjack bond? 4. Why is Beast 09 so damn expensive? 5. Why her WJP so stupid low?
Out of theme I can't figure out the right build for her to tech against Cryx. I feel like you need...
- A full WGRC boat for shooting, shatterstorm, and to synergies with desperate pace. - Either A&H or Outriders for magic weapon (both 12 pts) - A high ARM hard hitting melee unit for Iron Flesh, and to screen Sorscha. I'll go with the MOWST boat (25 points) - Orin (so you're not screwed by Crippling Grasp (5 pts)
So that backs me into this...
Forward Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +27 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 - Koldun Kapitan Valachev - PC: 4
No stealth removal, but the price of Reinholt is minimizing a unit, or swapping Behemoth for Beast but is that really worth it? A&H seems like the better play vs Outriders... It opens up other opportunities for the feat turn. (But, shatterstorm on sprays is sick. But POW 12 sprays don't seem like they'll do the trick bs Dark Host).
I dunno... I haven't played S2 since MK2 so I can't even tell if this list would be any good. I will say that playing out of theme I immediately feel like I'm playing down points.
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Post by skathrex on Sept 14, 2017 8:29:31 GMT
Sorscha2 was and is the best answer for Ghost Fleet, in or out of WGK.
The Problem is the second List, which is Dark Host. There the whole shooting aspect falls apart.
I am not sure about the MoW. I get the aspect of wanting to use every spell of her kit, but if Harkevich teached us anything, it's just because the caster has the spell it doesn't mean you have to build for it.
I am a bit afraid that orin has to do double time in that matchup. He dies really easily to Venom sprays and if he dies or has no tokens left the MoW are very suseptible to the -2 speed debuff, especially if he also takes out the Kovnik.
On the other hand Mow are tough enough to withstand a lot of punishment, not sure on them though.
coming back the main problem is still just Dark Host. You have to build a list that threatens GF and can play into most variants of Dark Host. I only see sorscha1 or Butcher3 atm. Maybe with the Wolfes of Winter theme there will be a bit more but until thats out and we know whats in it I see no other way
And on that thought I watched DrNorbert yesterday and he played Butcher3 in LoS which looks very interesting to me. I am not sure on how good Melee RFP is but together witch Butcher3 I think it could work. Question is what else it handles. Maybe even Cygnar? But I would be afraid of Caine3
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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 14, 2017 9:55:17 GMT
The problem of S2 in wgk as cryx drop is lack of magic weapons. If they allow mercs S2 wgk would be good, but so would be some other casters.
Mow theme is probably the best list for her. Ironically it's the best list for many of our shelf casters. The problem is that mows are a bad idea against Cryx regardless of caster. And it's not because of bane spam, I'm more afraid of debuffs and order denial from them.
Out of theme seems just plain worse than B3 wgk. Why even try it unless for some hipster reason?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 14, 2017 11:35:21 GMT
I will remind folks that Will Schick said this in an Insider, and so I hold out hope that within 2 weeks we will get the Graylord theme which I feel can answer both lists.
The question is... which caster? I'm waiting for the theme to drop to begin testing it, but am leaning towards Old Witch 2.
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Post by Hoc Est Bellum on Sept 14, 2017 13:18:36 GMT
Wasn't the Greylord theme already spoiled? It gives one unit apparition, and lets you start with upkeeps in place. Or has there been an update on that?
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Post by leotherat on Sept 14, 2017 13:35:09 GMT
That's what the insider said but it hasn't hit war room yet and there could be changes between the 2 media.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 14, 2017 18:57:16 GMT
That's what the insider said but it hasn't hit war room yet and there could be changes between the 2 media. Yes. We don't know, for instance, if mercs will be allowed. I'm also keeping my fingers crossed that Ruin is allowed but that may be irrational.
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Post by skathrex on Sept 15, 2017 8:43:24 GMT
Sorscha2 in that theme might actually be really solid.
You just have to find a way to make her survive. And shatterstorm can't be given to Reavers sadly.
I will test both new themes with Strakov of curse, since they both bring the most important thing jaws brings, free Forge Seers. Only Behemoth will hurt, but 17" Doom Reavers sound to good to pass up
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 15, 2017 15:34:57 GMT
So the other thread on Victor as a potentially better de-stealther has me second guessing what I want to try out at this Saturday's local tournament. There's a good chance I will face Cryx in Dark Host or Ghost Fleet. Am I CRAZY to bring a colossal vs. Cryx?
Current thinking:
Alternative, now with Victor:
Theory Machining...
Early game, Denny/GF doesn't have the range to get to Victor, so you're guaranteed a couple rounds of shooting. At ARM 14 Denny really hates being put on fire. So do all of her infantry. Her feat range is 20, so if she's close enough to feat then she's close enough to risk getting shot. -2 RAT on Victor is meaningless.
She then needs to worry about standing too close to something (anything) that the Field Gun can knock down, because if she does then Vicky aims and shoots THAT, and now she's -2 DEF vs. rockets and CRAs.
Keep Butcher near Victor. In either match-up if Cryx brings enough stuff to deal with Victor, then Butcher feats and deals with that. And, the list still has two more heavy jacks including Ruin who can fix annoying upkeeps (including on Victor, in a pinch).
The WGRC are less useful in the Dark Host matchup. There, the rockets are still useful, and then CRA the unit into stuff. I think they're mainly speed bumps for Butcher and Victor. The list has solid armor cracking...
Is this nuts?
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Sept 15, 2017 17:09:57 GMT
Theory Machining... Early game, Denny/GF doesn't have the range to get to Victor, so you're guaranteed a couple rounds of shooting. At ARM 14 Denny really hates being put on fire. So do all of her infantry. Her feat range is 20, so if she's close enough to feat then she's close enough to risk getting shot. -2 RAT on Victor is meaningless. She then needs to worry about standing too close to something (anything) that the Field Gun can knock down, because if she does then Vicky aims and shoots THAT, and now she's -2 DEF vs. rockets and CRAs. Keep Butcher near Victor. In either match-up if Cryx brings enough stuff to deal with Victor, then Butcher feats and deals with that. And, the list still has two more heavy jacks including Ruin who can fix annoying upkeeps (including on Victor, in a pinch). The WGRC are less useful in the Dark Host matchup. There, the rockets are still useful, and then CRA the unit into stuff. I think they're mainly speed bumps for Butcher and Victor. The list has solid armor cracking... Is this nuts? It might work, though I think you're going to run into some issues with scenario. A savvy GF/Darkhost player probably won't get into a slug fest with you, they'll look to jam you out and flood zones. You have a lot of power concentrated into one place and two min units of rifle corps aren't really self sufficient enough to hold flanks/other zones. Not all scenarios will be bad, but I can see a couple where if they start scoring first you're going to have a hard time with such a small foot print.
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Post by pyr0maniacal on Sept 16, 2017 12:59:51 GMT
I haven't faced Ghost Fleet but I'd be curious to know what people use against Satyxis Raiders. Those chicks give me fits. Plenty of Khador anti-infantry tech are AOEs but they're immune to that until the Sea Witch is dead.
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Post by Netherby on Sept 17, 2017 4:57:12 GMT
I haven't faced Ghost Fleet but I'd be curious to know what people use against Satyxis Raiders. Those chicks give me fits. Plenty of Khador anti-infantry tech are AOEs but they're immune to that until the Sea Witch is dead. It's not free for them. They are picking between pathfinder and force barrier unless they are getting additional support from caster or such. They are immune to blasts, but not all AOEs are blasts. But for the most part they tend to be difficult to remove at range, especially for Khador. The +2 def and blast immunity shuts down most of our ranged options. You just have to kill them in melee. Kodiak Vent Steam is pretty good at clearing them out, even WGI sprays will do the job if you can angle them well. The simple volume of attacks means you will get the 9's you need to hit them.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Sept 17, 2017 20:27:22 GMT
I guess cryx is getting a new jack theme that hands out carapace to all their heavy jacks, plus free lights. Any thoughts on how to tech against that?
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Post by welshhoppo on Sept 17, 2017 20:29:46 GMT
I guess cryx is getting a new jack theme that hands out carapace to all their heavy jacks, plus free lights. Any thoughts on how to tech against that? Crush em in melee. There isn't much of a chance at shooting them downstream with caraspace.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Sept 17, 2017 21:03:11 GMT
I guess cryx is getting a new jack theme that hands out carapace to all their heavy jacks, plus free lights. Any thoughts on how to tech against that? Crush em in melee. There isn't much of a chance at shooting them downstream with caraspace. So you think LegoS will handle it well? Because that's what I've got to work with for now.
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