isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634 
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Post by isotope on Aug 17, 2017 21:08:07 GMT
See what happens when 90% of the field doesnt show up to a SR with Cygnar/Cryx??  |
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 17, 2017 23:01:56 GMT
Do you have the entire list of Attendees?
Cool to see protectorate on top
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 17, 2017 23:10:03 GMT
Chain attack facebook posted the whole list i believe.
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Post by darkshroud on Aug 18, 2017 3:24:22 GMT
Well, jason leading with coc really isnt surprising
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Post by jisidro on Aug 18, 2017 11:15:00 GMT
90% is hyperbole but it's good to see variety...  |
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 18, 2017 11:59:08 GMT
90% is hyperbole but it's good to see variety... Just a dig on all the "doom and gloomers" from the iron moot results. |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 18, 2017 15:03:22 GMT
90% is hyperbole but it's good to see variety... Just a dig on all the "doom and gloomers" from the iron moot results. I wish you wouldn't try and use this as proof.
All it really does is highlight that the US Meta as a whole is really struggling right now.
Big US players have even come out and suggested that there is an obvious problem with a lack of strong Cygnar and Cryx players in North America.
I didn't want to bring up such doom and gloom, I don't feel negativity helps, but neither does doing what you're doing and using obviously weird results to support a ridiculous argument that Cygnar and Cryx are fine.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 18, 2017 15:08:17 GMT
Just a dig on all the "doom and gloomers" from the iron moot results. I wish you wouldn't try and use this as proof.
All it really does is highlight that the US Meta as a whole is really struggling right now.
Big US players have even come out and suggested that there is an obvious problem with a lack of strong Cygnar and Cryx players in North America.
I didn't want to bring up such doom and gloom, I don't feel negativity helps, but neither does doing what you're doing and using obviously weird results to support a ridiculous argument that Cygnar and Cryx are fine.
Posting the results of any singular event is not ever conductive to making a statement supporting either side of the "are cygnar/cryx balanced" argument. I think this does show that the argument of "good players who want to win will always bring Cygnar/Cryx because they OPOP" |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 18, 2017 15:14:41 GMT
I wish you wouldn't try and use this as proof.
All it really does is highlight that the US Meta as a whole is really struggling right now.
Big US players have even come out and suggested that there is an obvious problem with a lack of strong Cygnar and Cryx players in North America.
I didn't want to bring up such doom and gloom, I don't feel negativity helps, but neither does doing what you're doing and using obviously weird results to support a ridiculous argument that Cygnar and Cryx are fine.
Posting the results of any singular event is not ever conductive to making a statement supporting either side of the "are cygnar/cryx balanced" argument. I think this does show that the argument of "good players who want to win will always bring Cygnar/Cryx because they OPOP" It's not an argument. Europe have been ravaged by Cygnar players for a year. Then one came over to the US and won lock n load. He even won playing on the least favourable board I've ever seen in a major final.
Constantly moaning on here about game balance won't change anything and it's pointless. It changes nothing and doesn't help you work on overcoming the problems, which I'm a big proponent of. That said let's not go around saying things that everyone knows aren't true just because you don't want to get nerfed. WTC will be the proof. Prepare for double Cygnar and Double Cryx Teams.
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Post by fdf86 on Aug 18, 2017 19:22:23 GMT
It's cool to see a lot of factions represented but I see a big disparity between Hordes and Warmachine. I don't know how many more players are on the list but it still seems rather low.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 18, 2017 19:24:17 GMT
Will be interesting to see heat 2 after today. Maybe more hordes?
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Post by Aegis on Aug 18, 2017 20:12:00 GMT
All it really does is highlight that the US Meta as a whole is really struggling right now. Big US players have even come out and suggested that there is an obvious problem with a lack of strong Cygnar and Cryx players in North America. One could counter that actually is Europe that hosts the best Cygnar players of the world, and that people like Patrick or Jarle win most tournaments there since years. JVM often wins or places in whatever tournament he plays, but noone cries to nerf Legion. That not to prove anything... Maybe Cryx and Cygnar are really over the line (Cygnar already has a nerf incoming, so that Lances were OP is quite out of discussion), but it's the proof that one tournament or two rarely prove anything (on both sides). Let's try to refrain from the mindset of "If the tournament results support my opinion than they are an undeniable proof, if they support the opposite than they are the exception and shouldn't be considered.". |
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 18, 2017 22:07:35 GMT
All it really does is highlight that the US Meta as a whole is really struggling right now. Big US players have even come out and suggested that there is an obvious problem with a lack of strong Cygnar and Cryx players in North America. One could counter that actually is Europe that hosts the best Cygnar players of the world, and that people like Patrick or Jarle win most tournaments there since years. JVM often wins or places in whatever tournament he plays, but noone cries to nerf Legion. That not to prove anything... Maybe Cryx and Cygnar are really over the line (Cygnar already has a nerf incoming, so that Lances were OP is quite out of discussion), but it's the proof that one tournament or two rarely prove anything (on both sides). Let's try to refrain from the mindset of "If the tournament results support my opinion than they are an undeniable proof, if they support the opposite than they are the exception and shouldn't be considered.". This isn't 1 or 2 tournaments or 1 player dominating. It's been a year in the UK with multiple different players. UK Nationals (Sep 2016) 128 man masters. Final was Cygnar vs Cygnar. Cygnar took top 3. Won by Al Johnston Blood and Oil (Nov 2016) 112 man Masters. Final was Cygnar Vs Circle. Won by Matt Goligher Smog Con (Feb 2017) 8 Masters qualifiers, 4 are Cygnar, Final Cygnar vs Cygnar. Won by Pat Dunsford Welsh Masters (May 2017) 128 Man Masters. Final is Cygnar vs Cygnar. Won by Al Johnston. Top 2 are Cygnar So that's the 4 biggest non team events in the UK over the past year, won by three different players. Combine that with them winning Clogcon 2016 and Lock N Load 2017 and yes I'm starting to see a trend. In regards to your other point that a nerf is incoming. You will note that since spring these players have been running Heavy Metal as their dominant lists which don't even feature Storm Lances. It will mean they need to maybe diversify their infantry clearing list, but it doesn't touch the Haley2 HM list which is getting so much play. |
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Post by Aegis on Aug 18, 2017 22:53:04 GMT
Exactly what I'm saying.
Don't take just the tournament that support your opinion.
From Discount games, on 2017:
Iron Moot Champions MK 3 2017 August 06, 2017
1st: Christopher Davies Khador
Iron Moot Masters MK 3 2017 August 05, 2017
1st: Sverre Reikvam Cryx
Iron Moot Nordic Championship MK 3 2017 August 04, 2017
1st: Jarle Svendsrud Cygnar
Lock & Load Iron Gauntlet MK 3 2017 July 23, 2017
1st: Patrick Dunford Cygnar
Lock & Load Masters MK 3 2017 July 22, 2017
1st: Brandon Andrews Cryx
World Ender Invitational MK 3 2017 July 22, 2017
1st: Bubba Dalton Khador
Paris Team Tournament MK 3 2017 July 14, 2017
1st: Swedish Team: Hugo Svanborg Mercenaries
1st: Swedish Team: Gustav Berggren Legion of Everblight
1st: Swedish Team: Christoffer Wedding Cygnar
1st: Swedish Team: Rickard Nilsson Minions
1st: Swedish Team: Gustav Linderup Protectorate of Menoth
TEQ 2017 MK 3 July 08, 2017
1st: Snowflake Supremacy: Nicolas Menard Khador
1st: Snowflake Supremacy: David Lamarre Retribution of Scyrah
1st: Snowflake Supremacy: Loic Rivetti Mercenaries
Giiga Con MK 3 2017 July 02, 2017
1st: Brandon Andrews Cryx
ETC Masters 2017 MK 3 July 01, 2017
1st: Dominik de Cassan Skorne
1st: Sascha Maisel Skorne
1st: Martin Hornacek Skorne
1st: Moritz Riegler Cryx
1st: Robin Maukisch Cygnar
Millenium Games 2017 MK 3 June 24, 2017
1st: Charles Soong Mercenaries
Gateway Open 2017 MK 3 June 23, 2017
1st: Brent Simon Cygnar
Rocky Mountain Rumble 2017 MK 3 June 17, 2017
1st: Matt Zelus Cryx
Italian Masters 2017 MK 3 May 29, 2017
1st: Alessandro "ATP" Montagnani Cryx
MoMCon 2017 MK 3 May 27, 2017
1st: Tim Banky Cryx
Polish National Team Championship 2017 MK 3 May 22, 2017
1st: Konrad Sosnowski Kondzioro Cryx
1st: Karol Sosnowski Arhain Circle Orboros
1st: Wiktor Harezlak Melfist Cryx
Bison Brawl 2017 MK 3 May 20, 2017
1st: Brent Simon Cygnar
Kingdomcon Iron Gauntlet MK 3 2017 May 06, 2017
1st: Michael Scherer Retribution of Scyrah
Southern Ontarion Open Masters 2017 MK 3 May 05, 2017
1st: Tim Banky Cryx
Kingdomcon Masters MK 3 2017 May 05, 2017
1st: Dan Yount Circle Orboros
Grotscon Iron Guantlet MK 3 2017 April 30, 2017
1st: Josh Richter Retribution of Scyrah
Grotscon Masters MK 3 2017 April 29, 2017
1st: David Beauchamp Khador
The Melee at Shiloh Masters MK 3 April 28, 2017
1st: Brent Simon Legion of Everblight
Steam Horn Wars Masters MK 3 2017 April 23, 2017
1st: Marcin Nowicki Cygnar
Crucible MK 3 2017 March 31, 2017
1st: Jessie Farmer Convergence of Cyriss
Adepticon Iron Gauntlet 2017 MK 3 March 26, 2017
1st: Trevor Attridge Cygnar
Adepticon Masters 2017 MK 3 March 26, 2017
1st: Jake VanMeter Legion of Everblight
Seattle Open 2017 MK 3 March 25, 2017
1st: Jeff Everitt Khador
Intermountain Cup Spring 2017 MK 3 March 11, 2017
1st: Richard Potter Cygnar
Ontario Team Championship 2017 MK 3 March 04, 2017
1st: Francesco's Angels: Francesco Zap Circle Orboros
1st: Francesco's Angels: Bubba Dalton Khador
1st: Francesco's Angels: Chris Orr Legion of Everblight
1st: Francesco's Angels: Marc-Andre Leblanc Cygnar
1st: Francesco's Angels: David Beauchamp Khador
American Team Championship 2017 MK 3 March 04, 2017
1st: Jay Larsen Retribution of Scyrah
1st: Brian Marino Legion of Everblight
1st: Micheal Ireland Retribution of Scyrah
1st: Dan Yount Circle Orboros
1st: Trevor Attridge Cygnar
Smogcon Masters 2017 MK 3 February 18, 2017
1st: Patrick Dunford Cygnar
Captaincon Masters 2017 MK 3 February 05, 2017
1st: Jake VanMeter Legion of Everblight
Las Vegas Open Iron Gauntlet 2017 MK 3 February 05, 2017
1st: Jeff Everitt Circle Orboros
Las Vegas Open Masters 2017 MK 3 February 04, 2017
1st: Jeff Everitt Circle Orboros
Cancon Iron Gauntlet MK3 2017 January 29, 2017
1st: Colin Hill Circle Orboros
Flying Execution Masters 2017 MK 3 January 29, 2017
1st: Konrad Sosnowski Cryx
Norwegian Masters 2017 Mk 3 January 29, 2017
1st: Jarle Svendsrud Cygnar
Norwegian Invitationals 2017 MK 3 January 29, 2017
1st: Andrea Holm Protectorate of Menoth
Cancon Masters 2017 MK 3 January 28, 2017
1st: Josh Bates Cygnar
The total number of winners for each faction is:
Cygnar: 14
Cryx: 11
Khador: 7
Circle : 7
Legion: 6
Retribution: 5
Mercs: 3
Skorne: 3
Protectorate: 2
Minions: 1
Convergence: 1
Are Cygnar and Cryx winning more than others? Sure.
Are they absolutely dominating every tournament? No (about 3 tournament on 5 are won by factions that aren't Cygnar or Cryx, with all factions but trolls getting some wins).
A tournament result only tells up to a certain amount on info and "proves" nothing, on both sides, but if you want to use it for data, then use all data available not just the one that supports your thesis.
Also, UK and Norway in particular are country that historically always had an huge Cygnar over-rappresentation, and that always hosted some of the best Cygnar players in the world (since MK2), so examinating data only from those countries isn't very telling.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 18, 2017 22:59:35 GMT
 Here is both Heats. As expected, more Hordes in Heat B |
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