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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 22, 2017 11:18:29 GMT
PS. That said, still digging on Loud Chris's Vlad2 list though I may have to give his Irusk2 list a whirl but that means buying a second unit of Kayazy ;-) What's his Irusk2 list..? Irusk2 is in my pairing just now and I'm curious. Cheers, Dave
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 22, 2017 12:01:37 GMT
I am (assuming very much so) That its probably a JoTW with double Kayazy assassins.
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Post by tapecrawler on Aug 22, 2017 14:39:13 GMT
I love Khador and I just get frustrated when I see the overall game moving in a ranged dominant direction and we have horribly inconsistent ranged weapons. And then here comes a mechanic unit that just happpens to be better or equal to all of our ranged stuff outside of the Widowmakers. It would be a bit different if we had snipe or other range modifiers. I know it's cornercase and not optimal, but the mechanics are pretty equivalent if not a touch better than our Widowmakers. The Widowmakers have a point advantage in RAT but the Mechanics get 3 more DEF while dug in along with tough. So it seems that the Mechanics have good odds of coming out on top in a duel. That just seems so wrong that our premier shooting unit is roughly equivalent to a support unit that has ranged capabilities along with Dig in and Tough.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 22, 2017 14:50:21 GMT
I love Khador and I just get frustrated when I see the overall game moving in a ranged dominant direction and we have horribly inconsistent ranged weapons. And then here comes a mechanic unit that just happpens to be better or equal to all of our ranged stuff outside of the Widowmakers. It would be a bit different if we had snipe or other range modifiers. I know it's cornercase and not optimal, but the mechanics are pretty equivalent if not a touch better than our Widowmakers. The Widowmakers have a point advantage in RAT but the Mechanics get 3 more DEF while dug in along with tough. So it seems that the Mechanics have good odds of coming out on top in a duel. That just seems so wrong that our premier shooting unit is roughly equivalent to a support unit that has ranged capabilities along with Dig in and Tough. Don't despair fellow patriot! In a vacuum I can see why you might find this frustrating. But Widowmakers can do things that trenchers will never be able to... like have RNG 14, finish off columns on jacks, or peg high armored infantry and reliably kill them. I'd take my surly snipers before some lousy southern mechaniks any day. (I know you acknowledged it in your post, but it's still worth mentioning) You have other pieces better suited to dealing with the mechaniks! (also, if they're dug in they are probably not repairing)
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 22, 2017 16:08:30 GMT
Khador lacking in ranged? Oh please. We have THE best ranged infantry in the game. Though we also have the worst ranged jacks in the game so it kinda evens out.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 22, 2017 16:20:01 GMT
I am (assuming very much so) That its probably a JoTW with double Kayazy assassins. Yup. Double Assassins. I think he has a behemoth in there as well for the jack load out. Up on Discount Games. The second unit of KAs is the deterrent - but I AM contemplating repainting so it might be time for a nice assembly line ;-)
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Post by borderprince on Aug 22, 2017 17:22:22 GMT
I love Khador and I just get frustrated when I see the overall game moving in a ranged dominant direction and we have horribly inconsistent ranged weapons. And then here comes a mechanic unit that just happpens to be better or equal to all of our ranged stuff outside of the Widowmakers. It would be a bit different if we had snipe or other range modifiers. I know it's cornercase and not optimal, but the mechanics are pretty equivalent if not a touch better than our Widowmakers. The Widowmakers have a point advantage in RAT but the Mechanics get 3 more DEF while dug in along with tough. So it seems that the Mechanics have good odds of coming out on top in a duel. That just seems so wrong that our premier shooting unit is roughly equivalent to a support unit that has ranged capabilities along with Dig in and Tough. (1) I don't think the game is moving in a ranged dominant direction unless you choose to play infantry heavy with relatively low-ARM infantry. Ranged attacks are lower in POW to melee, so weaker against heavy ARM lists. Ranged is also easier to shut down compared to melee (stealth is a fairly widely spread rule); (2) A mechanik unit that's better than Khador's shooting? I'm not convinced. WGI are shorter ranged, but can CRA for accuracy and to deal with mid-ARM. WGRC and Widowmakers are both longer ranged, so can get either or both of first shot or aiming bonus. Digging in also loses a turn of shooting. Aiming Widowmakers have not terrible odds of hitting Dug In mechaniks (the same, I think as Mechanics hitting Widowmakers who choose to stand in the open).
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 22, 2017 20:27:19 GMT
Khador lacking in ranged? Oh please. We have THE best ranged infantry in the game. Though we also have the worst ranged jacks in the game so it kinda evens out. Lol wut? When did we get access to MHSF?
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 22, 2017 21:24:28 GMT
MHSF are bad at shooting anything that's armed and not jack though.
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 23, 2017 12:19:21 GMT
MHSF are bad at shooting anything that's armed and not jack though. Only when I am rolling the dice... But actually you are proving my point. MHSF are so Good because you can back them up with Stormfalls. So yeah, I have IFP who largely don't care about MHSF, but then they get lit on fire by Stormfalls. It's a lose lose for Khador.
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 23, 2017 14:41:51 GMT
MHSF are bad at shooting anything that's armed and not jack though. Only when I am rolling the dice... But actually you are proving my point. MHSF are so Good because you can back them up with Stormfalls. So yeah, I have IFP who largely don't care about MHSF, but then they get lit on fire by Stormfalls. It's a lose lose for Khador. Just in case you don't know, you do get shield wall bonus against fire damage. It might prevent some from burning to death.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 23, 2017 15:51:24 GMT
I'd agree on Stormfalls if they weren't FA2. You can take up to 18 rockets and reasonably people take up to 12. You can't take more than 8 stormfalls. They are more cost effective than wg though.
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Post by tapecrawler on Aug 23, 2017 22:40:44 GMT
You know what I find hilarious? I've been pretty wound up lately about the Trencher mechanics and I went over to Cygnar forum and read their thread where they are discussing them. I'd probably run them in almost every list in Cygnar or if we were given the chance to run them in Khador they would probably be the first unit I tried to fit in every list. The experienced Cygnar players that are always active over there pretty much dismissed them out of hand and only are considering them for Grenadier batteries outside of Gravedigger theme. I was hoping to see Juris' thoughts about them, but he seems to be absent.
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Post by killermuppet on Aug 24, 2017 0:16:36 GMT
Apparently if it isn't OP Cygnar players won't use it. We can see the value in a ranged repair unit, but apparently they are too MEH to include. I will have to make an example to them the value of repair units the can shoot stuff rather then melee only.
Just my 2cp,
-Da Muppet
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Post by benjamini on Aug 29, 2017 15:36:42 GMT
In some ways it's kind of the same with Ironclads and Hammersmiths, I'd LOVE to be able to take those jacks in Khador, but most Cygnar players I know seem to dislike them.
I guess it's a difference between the two faction's ideal models.
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