Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Aug 18, 2017 11:32:22 GMT
My two units of dusty AKs are trembling with excitement over all the mention of them in this thread. Maybe! Just maybe!
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Post by borderprince on Aug 18, 2017 12:35:38 GMT
My two units of dusty AKs are trembling with excitement over all the mention of them in this thread. Maybe! Just maybe! Are you sure it isn't just a wobbly shelf?
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 18, 2017 14:37:07 GMT
My two units of dusty AKs are trembling with excitement over all the mention of them in this thread. Maybe! Just maybe! Nah, the dust is just so heavy that the shelf is starting to break.
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 18, 2017 15:31:16 GMT
Now I realize that in the scope of things I shouldn't care but honestly explain the leaked Trencher Mechanics to me and compare them to our battle mechanics. I just don't "get" PP. Figure that these will become a staple in nearly every Cygnar gun line (cause 3 points) but unlike OUR guys who die to stiff breezes theses guys are almost assuredly going to be dug in until required to move SIX inches up the board. www.facebook.com/PartyFoulWMH/photos/pcb.706505909541401/706505752874750/?type=3&theaterI'm with you. I am highly frustrated with the game right now because Khador never gets anything meta shaping. Save B3 and everyone has him figured out by now. PP just doesn't seem to care about Khador players. Where is our Oracles, Heavy Metal or Ghost Fleet? Oh wait, we almost had that with Mad Dog spam and they nerfed it (lol). But Ghost Fleet; Firetruck you Khador players, learn to deal with it. These mechs, even at 5pts, are really good. Consider that for most turns your mechs aren't doing anything because they have no ranged weapon - this gives them the ability to do something until repair is needed. Same for after your jacks are dead. Normal mechs do nothing. Trencher mechs can shoot and have an impact on the game even after the jacks are gone. Also, see the new Ret power booster unit. This is even more important when you consider that ambush is becoming more common as more units get it and SR makes it More valuable. I mean, wow, in jaws my mechanics that I never take can reposition. Lol Khador OP.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Aug 18, 2017 15:47:09 GMT
I still can't believe how loudly people complained that these were unplayable in CID. I don't think they're going to set the world on fire... but they're Trenchers. With Repair.
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Post by haraldtorvatn on Aug 18, 2017 17:20:32 GMT
I still can't believe how loudly people complained that these were unplayable in CID. I don't think they're going to set the world on fire... but they're Trenchers. With Repair. This is the right way to wiew them: Trenchers with repair. Trenchers are always useful, rapair is only occationaly usefull. I think these models highlight PPs design philosopy: Khador gets models which are good in just one situation. In the case of mechanics, that situation is repair. Cygnar gets models which are good in a lot of situations. They repair worse, but in almost any other situation, they are vastly superior. If you by Khador mechanics, you pay 3 points to get very little beyond a repair capability, which ar not useful very often. If you buy the trenchers you get a small, cheap survivable unit, which can save you on those ocations when repair is needed, and can do other good work when it is not.
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Post by killermuppet on Aug 18, 2017 18:21:35 GMT
Can a squad of Trencher Mechanics also hold/contest an objective? If so then this another reason Dug in and shooting trenchers are way better then another mechanic out there. You normally do not want your assault force to sit around babysitting the objective. They can be off assaulting things while the 5 Point cost Mechanics can sit dug in and take pot shots at anyone trying to contest the objective while they hold it. Not even a squad of Kossites are really going to do much against them.
Just my 2cp, - Da Muppet
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Post by zerosequence on Aug 18, 2017 20:26:20 GMT
Can a squad of Trencher Mechanics also hold/contest an objective? If so then this another reason Dug in and shooting trenchers are way better then another mechanic out there. You normally do not want your assault force to sit around babysitting the objective. They can be off assaulting things while the 5 Point cost Mechanics can sit dug in and take pot shots at anyone trying to contest the objective while they hold it. Not even a squad of Kossites are really going to do much against them. Just my 2cp, - Da Muppet Yes. Exactly.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 18, 2017 21:11:27 GMT
It should be noted if I read their card right that diging in is an action so they can't dig and shoot. They can dig.
At five points I am off my ledge. But at three, again, I figure you dig them in (one being in a zone for contesting ....because) and then the other three withing 6 inches of where they might need to go. At DEF 17 immune to blast damage that is a LOT more survivable than ours....and you really ONLY need 1 or 2 to get back the systems that you need.
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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 19, 2017 4:36:32 GMT
I think people are really going over the top here. The models are 5 points for 3. They can dig in and repair. They have some good survivable mechanics for the price of a high end solo. They are also limited to theme. If they sit back with these guys, they most likely wont be repairing. If they repair a jack, blast damage them, which you can't do to our mechanics in theme!
I think everyone is mistaking mole hills for mountains
Zerosequence, Khador is in a very good position right now. We have great themes, 80-90% of our casters are competitive, maybe three units could use reworking. I don't think we're in a position to complain at all, and i think that's a poor attitude.
We haven't even been through CID, along with 9 other factions. Lets be realistic and positive guys.
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Post by gobber on Aug 19, 2017 5:05:34 GMT
They are also limited to theme. Wha??? They're quite literally in every Cygnar theme (all 4 include "mechanik models/units"). Letting grenadiers reload in any theme is their main selling point.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 19, 2017 12:30:32 GMT
I'm with you. I am highly frustrated with the game right now because Khador never gets anything meta shaping. Save B3 and everyone has him figured out by now. PP just doesn't seem to care about Khador players. Where is our Oracles, Heavy Metal or Ghost Fleet? Oh wait, we almost had that with Mad Dog spam and they nerfed it (lol). But Ghost Fleet; Firetruck you Khador players, learn to deal with it. ... I mean, wow, in jaws my mechanics that I never take can reposition. Lol Khador OP. Meta-shaping like 10-12 point ARM20 jacks with strong offensive output? Any serious tournament pairing has to build a list that is prepared to handle a Khador ARM spam list. One of the amusing things is that Khador can do that in JoW or WGK, and those lists play very differently. And can do it with multiple casters, who again play differently. Planning for a Khador ARM spam list is hard, because it could be very fast (Vlad1) or full of out of activation movement (Karchev) or handle terrain well (Harkevich), let alone the permutations of other models in the list and tier benefits. Certainly there are some models which aren't great, but Khador is much better than many factions for this. And reposition on mechaniks can be rather useful - repair, then get away from the jack which may as well have a "target templates here" sign painted on it. It's not game-breaking, but it certainly isn't useless in keeping the mechaniks alive. Yes. But PP tends to price versatility more highly that specialisation, so points economy often favours specialised models.
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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 19, 2017 12:40:29 GMT
They are also limited to theme. Wha??? They're quite literally in every Cygnar theme (all 4 include "mechanik models/units"). Letting grenadiers reload in any theme is their main selling point. They aren't limited to gravediggers and no theme? Still they aren'that bad.
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Post by tapecrawler on Aug 19, 2017 15:43:22 GMT
The two things that really stick in my craw with these guys are tough and MAT 6 RAT 6. MAT 6 RAT 6 on a support unit with a decent gun? That's silly when you look at our Kossites who are MAT 5 RAT 4 on a combat unit. The description of Kossites on the PP gallery says this about Kossites: "Despite their motley appearance and simple weapons, the Kossite woodsmen are fierce warriors. They wait in ambush with the patience and instincts of a hunter, and strike at the perfect moment to kill key assets or crumble the enemy’s flank." It sure sounds like they ought to be able to shoot and melee better than a squad of wrench monkeys!
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Post by tjhairball on Aug 19, 2017 17:23:07 GMT
It should be noted if I read their card right that diging in is an action so they can't dig and shoot. They can dig. At five points I am off my ledge. But at three, again, I figure you dig them in (one being in a zone for contesting ....because) and then the other three withing 6 inches of where they might need to go. At DEF 17 immune to blast damage that is a LOT more survivable than ours....and you really ONLY need 1 or 2 to get back the systems that you need. Yeah. At 3 points, in comparison to a minimum unit of BMs with roughly the same melee output (3x MAT 6 vs 4x MAT 5) you have: - +1 DEF, +1 _ARM, and Tough, in exchange for one fewer body (so better defense)
- Ranged attack at 10/10 with RAT 6
- Dig In
- Strip
As it is, they're still pretty impressive at 5 points. Compare to the Retribution Arcanists:
- Better defense per model (+1 ARM, Tough, Dig In)
- Closely comparable ranged attack per model (-2 POW, +2 RNG, +1 accuracy, no critical effect
- Closely comparable melee output per model (+1 MAT, -1 P+S, Strip)
- Fewer points per model (meaning that all three of the above are advantages).
- Closely comparable repair abilities per point.
Ouch. For that matter, their overall combat abilities are pretty comparable to a lot of 7 point 3-person units. It wouldn't be hard to make the case that they're pretty much worth their points on combat ability alone, and then have repair and Trencher synergies on top of that.
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