Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334 
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 9, 2017 15:16:47 GMT
Valachev can't even attach to a friendly faction unit anyway at the moment, and without themes allowing Merc units (yet) he won't ever see play.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Aug 9, 2017 20:59:27 GMT
"Additionally, a model can be identified by its own rules; for this to apply to a unit, however, all models in the unit must have the identifying rule." Prime p9 Now that I read this rule again, it makes a very weird interaction with Doomies with an Escort attached. Since the escort is not a Doom Reaver, the whole unit ceases to be a Doom Reaver unit if you attach it. |
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Post by sand20go on Aug 9, 2017 21:38:04 GMT
"Additionally, a model can be identified by its own rules; for this to apply to a unit, however, all models in the unit must have the identifying rule." Prime p9 Now that I read this rule again, it makes a very weird interaction with Doomies with an Escort attached. Since the escort is not a Doom Reaver, the whole unit ceases to be a Doom Reaver unit if you attach it. That will get fixed (right?) or else a unit with one attached couldn't apparition (right?) cause it wouldn't be either fully a doomie or fully a greylord. |
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 9, 2017 21:47:12 GMT
A lot of the theme armies that PP have released so far have been very close to some of the Mk2 theme armies. We've been looking at this preview from a Mad Dogs point of view, but don't forget that Zerkova1 and Zerkova2 theme forces both had Doom Reavers in them.
Also, the Zerkova2 theme army back in Mk2 allowed a Mercenary unit as long as Valachev was attached to it - at Tier 1.
If PP really wanted to recreate the "insignificant people are insignificant" feel that the Greylords seem to have about them, and push for more inclusion of Mercenaries in theme lists, I think that it would be an excellent opportunity for PP.
So what do you guys think this list would be like if it had access to a Merc squad under Valachev?
What would it be like if it had a second unit, a solo, and a battle engine like they wanted to try with the last CID?
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Post by sand20go on Aug 9, 2017 21:57:07 GMT
A lot of the theme armies that PP have released so far have been very close to some of the Mk2 theme armies. We've been looking at this preview from a Mad Dogs point of view, but don't forget that Zerkova1 and Zerkova2 theme forces both had Doom Reavers in them. Also, the Zerkova2 theme army back in Mk2 allowed a Mercenary unit as long as Valachev was attached to it - at Tier 1. If PP really wanted to recreate the "insignificant people are insignificant" feel that the Greylords seem to have about them, and push for more inclusion of Mercenaries in theme lists, I think that it would be an excellent opportunity for PP. So what do you guys think this list would be like if it had access to a Merc squad under Valachev? What would it be like if it had a second unit, a solo, and a battle engine like they wanted to try with the last CID? I would love for the CID to swap out one of the advantages for "Greylord models gain sac pawn non-greylord models" |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 9, 2017 22:03:34 GMT
A lot of the theme armies that PP have released so far have been very close to some of the Mk2 theme armies. We've been looking at this preview from a Mad Dogs point of view, but don't forget that Zerkova1 and Zerkova2 theme forces both had Doom Reavers in them. Also, the Zerkova2 theme army back in Mk2 allowed a Mercenary unit as long as Valachev was attached to it - at Tier 1. If PP really wanted to recreate the "insignificant people are insignificant" feel that the Greylords seem to have about them, and push for more inclusion of Mercenaries in theme lists, I think that it would be an excellent opportunity for PP. So what do you guys think this list would be like if it had access to a Merc squad under Valachev? What would it be like if it had a second unit, a solo, and a battle engine like they wanted to try with the last CID? Personally in favor of this: This theme force may add one merc/minion solos and one m/m unit with the Magic Ability descriptor. Valachev may be attached. The minion solo Maximus may be included in this army as as a Partisan (Khador) model. He qualifies as an eligible free solo, and does not count toward limit of 1 m/m solo. (Don't know the fluff...may be way off base here!) |
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Post by gobber on Aug 10, 2017 2:07:41 GMT
This is why Valechev doesn't make a unit a greylord unit anymore- "Additionally, a model can be identified by its own rules; for this to apply to a unit, however, all models in the unit must have the identifying rule." Prime p9 Huh. So there is additonal infernal clarification to that rule which fixes the resulting problems with houseguard+escort+thane, as well as the doomie/greylord apparition... Now Sea dogs+Valachev remains a sea dog unit. Darklegacy: privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?257175-Units-with-mixed-model-types&p=3653371&viewfull=1#post3653371Maximus was a deposed farrow chieftain that killed a bunch of doomreavers, picked up a sword, then became the pigreaver. No real fluff connection, but why not? |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 10, 2017 2:46:48 GMT
gobber I respect your fluff bunny prowess. Clearly the graylords would work to recover the lost sword, and having found the chieftain would enslave him in Service to the motherland.
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Post by gobber on Aug 10, 2017 3:36:40 GMT
gobber I respect your fluff bunny prowess. Clearly the graylords would work to recover the lost sword, and having found the chieftain would enslave him in Service to the motherland. Hey I'm all for them allowing more pigs into the theme. I will run with that if they let me...  |
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 10, 2017 12:32:38 GMT
A lot of the theme armies that PP have released so far have been very close to some of the Mk2 theme armies. We've been looking at this preview from a Mad Dogs point of view, but don't forget that Zerkova1 and Zerkova2 theme forces both had Doom Reavers in them. Also, the Zerkova2 theme army back in Mk2 allowed a Mercenary unit as long as Valachev was attached to it - at Tier 1. If PP really wanted to recreate the "insignificant people are insignificant" feel that the Greylords seem to have about them, and push for more inclusion of Mercenaries in theme lists, I think that it would be an excellent opportunity for PP. So what do you guys think this list would be like if it had access to a Merc squad under Valachev? What would it be like if it had a second unit, a solo, and a battle engine like they wanted to try with the last CID? Personally in favor of this: This theme force may add one merc/minion solos and one m/m unit with the Magic Ability descriptor. Valachev may be attached. The minion solo Maximus may be included in this army as as a Partisan (Khador) model. He qualifies as an eligible free solo, and does not count toward limit of 1 m/m solo. (Don't know the fluff...may be way off base here!) I think your merc/minion rule suggestion is too specific - I don't think the Greylords would be that picky. That, and why limit ourselves in the theme? Your suggestion would only benefit a Zerkova2 build, and these themes are designed around the idea of any caster being taken. As long as the merc/minion are capable cannon fodder that will allow the Greylords to get the job done and walk off the battlefield (instead of carried) I think the Greylords would be happy. Valachev would be a "must" to ensure compliance, or to eliminate the witnesses. You know, whatever... See what I did there? I made the rule F.E.F. - Fluffy, Evil, and Flexible. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 10, 2017 15:46:14 GMT
Sure, I *like* yours better. Who doesn't like FEF? But I would be ok with mine.
Zepherying Nyss in theme as targets for upkeeps would solve some frustration of not having a good target otherwise. Doomreavers...hard to deliver. Nyss with Quicken? Not so much.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 10, 2017 17:18:01 GMT
I think your merc/minion rule suggestion is too specific - I don't think the Greylords would be that picky. That, and why limit ourselves in the theme? Your suggestion would only benefit a Zerkova2 build, and these themes are designed around the idea of any caster being taken. As long as the merc/minion are capable cannon fodder that will allow the Greylords to get the job done and walk off the battlefield (instead of carried) I think the Greylords would be happy. Valachev would be a "must" to ensure compliance, or to eliminate the witnesses. You know, whatever... You limit in theme because themes are meant to be limited. Specific is fine - Greylords only want magic units so they can learn more about a wider range of spell-casting traditions. Fits just as well as the other approach, which would just as easily apply to conscript Winterguard (no evidence Greylords really care about them either). There really isn't enough fluff behind the Greylords to justify any particular approach. And limiting it to magic using mercs doesn't only benefit Zerkova2. Mercs are a way to get damage buffs from which Doomreavers can benefit, if nothing else: - Ragman gives a damage buff to anyone in range - definitely not just limited to Zerkova.
- Aiyana and Holt - more magic weapons and a damage buff with Valchev - not to be sniffed at with some casters.
- Any Doomreaver heavy build can get good work out of Alexia1 (who works well with Valachev).
- Alexia2 is nice if you can afford her - gives the theme some RFP and can follow the Spray Ponies around.
- Eilish Garrity at present is rather powerful...
I could easily see a Sorscha1 build using Alexia1, Ragman and Doomies in theme. Colossal + Ragman for damage buff, Alexia1 to pick up corpses from Doomreavers (either their own or victims') and then a strong late game piece. |
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 11, 2017 5:04:24 GMT
I think your merc/minion rule suggestion is too specific - I don't think the Greylords would be that picky. That, and why limit ourselves in the theme? Your suggestion would only benefit a Zerkova2 build, and these themes are designed around the idea of any caster being taken. As long as the merc/minion are capable cannon fodder that will allow the Greylords to get the job done and walk off the battlefield (instead of carried) I think the Greylords would be happy. Valachev would be a "must" to ensure compliance, or to eliminate the witnesses. You know, whatever... You limit in theme because themes are meant to be limited. Specific is fine - Greylords only want magic units so they can learn more about a wider range of spell-casting traditions. Fits just as well as the other approach, which would just as easily apply to conscript Winterguard (no evidence Greylords really care about them either). There really isn't enough fluff behind the Greylords to justify any particular approach. And limiting it to magic using mercs doesn't only benefit Zerkova2. Mercs are a way to get damage buffs from which Doomreavers can benefit, if nothing else: - Ragman gives a damage buff to anyone in range - definitely not just limited to Zerkova.
- Aiyana and Holt - more magic weapons and a damage buff with Valchev - not to be sniffed at with some casters.
- Any Doomreaver heavy build can get good work out of Alexia1 (who works well with Valachev).
- Alexia2 is nice if you can afford her - gives the theme some RFP and can follow the Spray Ponies around.
- Eilish Garrity at present is rather powerful...
I could easily see a Sorscha1 build using Alexia1, Ragman and Doomies in theme. Colossal + Ragman for damage buff, Alexia1 to pick up corpses from Doomreavers (either their own or victims') and then a strong late game piece. OK, I stand corrected. I'd encourage us though, when the time comes, to push for any Merc / Minions and not limit ourselves to just magic ability ones. If we push to have a limited theme, then everyone else (the dirty Swan-loving people at Privateer Press, the dirty Swan-playing players in CID, and maybe even some dirty swans from a nearby lake) will oblige and we will have a limited theme army. I'm telling you, if you're thoughtful and considerate in negotiating this stuff everybody else will see it as a sign of weakness and stomp all over the Empire. |
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Post by ozvelpoon on Aug 11, 2017 21:55:59 GMT
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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 11, 2017 22:23:17 GMT
Takes a bit of the steam out of this theme. |
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