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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 15, 2017 23:11:04 GMT
Now that the Crone's second/third incarnations are released, what do we think?
She strikes me as a strong caster (not OP). What are your thoughts on her changing between the end of the CID cycle, and now?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 23:18:09 GMT
Il list what I said already:
B- to B+ range. Strong caster but not an ace or OP.
She experienced minor changes that PP said they would be up to do and never hid the intent that they would do internal playtesting after the fact.
Windstorm is nice, but its not unstoppable, even with the +4 Inches control range feature.
Mostly shes not an Ace (At least in Khador) because of a lack of arcnodes. That makes casting any of her spells a much more risky venture. Syllis may be a must.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 15, 2017 23:31:08 GMT
I'm reading.. OVER NINE THOUSAND?!!
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 15, 2017 23:34:05 GMT
Il list what I said already: B- to B+ range. Strong caster but not an ace or OP. She experienced minor changes that PP said they would be up to do and never hid the intent that they would do internal playtesting after the fact. Windstorm is nice, but its not unstoppable, even with the +4 Inches control range feature. Mostly shes not an Ace (At least in Khador) because of a lack of arcnodes. That makes casting any of her spells a much more risky venture. Syllis may be a must. I could definitely see Sylys helping her plenty. I really like the look of her rules. They look clean, and really capture the idea of the witch slinging spells on top of a giant scrapjack. As for power, I'm just not sure what kind of list she wants to run. She has a nice toolkit, but it doesn't max out anything's power level. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 15, 2017 23:51:39 GMT
Rowdy, I can't see B-. She asks too many questions, and brings some answers. B+ yes. I won't argue the A- without a ton more playtesting and tournament results. I don't think you'll disadvantaged taking her in a 2 list pair, though. She will benefit a lot if PP allows mercs into our theme lists. Hard choice between Sylys, Reinholt and Orin on the solos (not counting the new bonkers guy in CID). I'd just love to be able to take her with Ayanna in Winterguard theme.
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Post by Aegis on Jul 16, 2017 0:18:29 GMT
With her power and a potential -5 RNG on all guns into a 18" range from an huge model (41" diameter) I think she is a solid A to A+.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 16, 2017 1:08:54 GMT
I think we all should try the Koldun lord combo for a big huge swatch of "no shooting" and then put our hardest hitters (doom reavers) right there. Seems legit ;-)
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Post by Netherby on Jul 16, 2017 1:52:25 GMT
With very few games played using her final form it's pretty hard to say where she will land. But on paper she is definitely an A level caster.
She has a deep bag of tricks that should make her pretty decent into most if not all match ups.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jul 16, 2017 2:01:14 GMT
Until I can afford the $100+ and the time to paint her, her power grade is "doesn't matter." That's a pretty steep price for a warcaster.
If / when I get her done, she will be exceptionally interesting...
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Jul 16, 2017 5:25:22 GMT
From first glance she seems like a high skill cap caster, she can do a lot of fun stuff but if most of your losses are to assassination she will just exacerbate the issues.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 16, 2017 8:03:14 GMT
I think that best Khador caster was and still is B3 due to his toolkit of energizer, takedown and Ruin in theme. He can play into literally any matchup in the game.
OW2 is not on that level due to not having rfp/magical weapons, not having anything against control and not having access to relevant character jack in theme.
She obviously doesn't compete with Karchev, Hark, etc. for being a jack caster either since she can't fuel and speed up at the same time.
What she does I think is replace Vlad 1 as the best gunline caster we have.
Curse and S&P on averages both give +2 hit/damage.
Windstorm is way way better than Windwall and in gunline vs. gunline matchup it has zero counterplay unlike clouds, passage, etc. In hypothetical OW2 wgk vs. Vlad wgk matchup she will easily wipe him off the board.
Her feat is also better than V1's feat in the context of gunline. V1 was always awkward with wanting to take more jacks and less guns because of his feat.
So there it is, she will be the wgk gunline queen while Vlad1 moves on to spamming jacks to remain relevant.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 16, 2017 9:37:51 GMT
not having access to relevant character jack in theme. Scrapjack is quietly crying in a corner... |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 16, 2017 9:44:14 GMT
What she does I think is replace Vlad 1 as the best gunline caster we have. Curse and S&P on averages both give +2 hit/damage. Uh no. Curse doesn't give a +2 to hit. Only damage. Against one target (Maybe two) at a time. Vlad1 is vastly superior to her in terms of ranged game. He can empower the entire army, and allow them to hit whatever targets they want without having to be close enough to hit targets with spells. Thats a big deal. You actually have to HIT your target with your spells. Your pretty short range spells, if you want any effect to happen. People your seriously overestimating the merits of Windstorm. Its a nice ability, but its expensive and can be counterplayed unlike something like Windwall which is a Binary Yes or no. |
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 16, 2017 10:39:51 GMT
I think Windstorm is much better than Windwall actually, as it not only effects non-Magic and Magic shooting, but Sprays and potentially AOEs as well. If you have a model with a 12" range gun, at SPD6 outside of her 18" bubble, they move in 6 and then shoot 7", anything within 5" of the Witch is safe, even from Sprays, likewise an AOE will not be able to be floated on top of her and when it scatters she just sends it the wrong way. Windwall is great, but offered little in the end against Sprays and AOEs, and in those cases, your guys were all clumped up to benefit from the "protection" anyway.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 16, 2017 10:43:42 GMT
I think Windstorm is much better than Windwall actually, as it not only effects non-Magic and Magic shooting, but Sprays and potentially AOEs as well. If you have a model with a 12" range gun, at SPD6 outside of her 18" bubble, they move in 6 and then shoot 7", anything within 5" of the Witch is safe, even from Sprays, likewise an AOE will not be able to be floated on top of her and when it scatters she just sends it the wrong way. Windwall is great, but offered little in the end against Sprays and AOEs, and in those cases, your guys were all clumped up to benefit from the "protection" anyway. Sprays are universally unaffected by range decreases (Or increases). What you listed was again eat stuff but as I pointed out already: What else is she doing on the turn that she has her super windstorm up? Probably only allocating focus to jacks at best because she will lack the range in order to debuff anything. Maybe hitting something with a crow gun. Thats it. |
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