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Post by Azuresun on Jul 14, 2017 9:17:49 GMT
I must be the only Merc player here, because what I read there is "real factions are getting real theme forces with a lot of nice new releases -see Northkin, Gravediggers- but you'll be getting a crappy pdf which will solve nothing because Firetruck you" Those are pp's words exactly. Eh, I wouldn't go as far as that, but it is hard to escape the feeling that the factions have unofficially had the same treatment as Convergence, with no public announcement. And the confirmation of new theme forces.... somewhere down the line....is good, it probably won't make a big difference to competitiveness. Because what's telling for me is the sudden drought of releases. "But but but Mercs aren't a real faction!" Well, maybe not now, but up till the start of Mk3, my faction was getting new stuff. But this last year, I've just sat and watched as the Big Four are showered with new releases, new warcasters, new character jacks, and I get....a "like this other solo, but slightly worse" solo, and an obvious afterthought of a warcaster clearly designed for another faction. It's not that urgent for me, because I'm switching factions anyway, but themes by themselves aren't that exciting. It's hard to see how the pirate theme can solve the problem that light melee infantry isn't viable in Mk3 without hardcore delivery, and the Llael theme will probably be too thematic to be competitive, when themes need to be "take your good stuff, have some free points".
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Post by beardmonk on Jul 14, 2017 14:10:27 GMT
This
The whole of Mk3 has just felt like a long drawn out mess to me which I think has really hurt PPs standing and the position of WM/H as a game within the "gaming community" (whatever that is).
What saves it from my PoV is the level of communications from PP and the fact that the ruleset is so tight. Any other game that required this much re-work after an edition change would be dead in the water imo. Many of our local players have just lost patience and walked away.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 14, 2017 15:02:52 GMT
I must be the only Merc player here, because what I read there is "real factions are getting real theme forces with a lot of nice new releases -see Northkin, Gravediggers- but you'll be getting a crappy pdf which will solve nothing because Firetruck you" lol thanks for proving my point for me
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 15:34:06 GMT
It took me a while to actually understand the reasoning behind why Merc themes won't get a rule like this. But I actually get it now. The Mercs who would be in Kingmaker are already in Kingmaker. Maybe the list can be expanded to include some mercs who would do it, but it's mostly thematically set.
Ultimately, every model in mercs will eventually have a theme to call home. Hopefully that will be true for every faction.
I did feel bad for merc players until now. I have remembered that they have had a theme to use Trenchers and Rangers in since Mk3 started. Gravediggers is still off in the distance. And the Llael theme will allow the use of a Cygnar or Protectorate unit. So, I don't buy the idea that they don't have any new toys to play with. Nor do I buy the idea that it isn't fair for other factions to have access to mercs in theme. So, you guys need to chill.
When the Llael theme drops, you'll get Gastone2, and access to plenty of goodies. The Pirate theme could be great. Infantry goes up in stock in SR17. And even the release of the Steelhead theme could be nice because all of this can go through CID.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Jul 14, 2017 15:44:39 GMT
You seem to have read a different Soles statement that the one saying basically "we are gonna release a freakin pdf with maybe a single new release with merc themes"
It's pretty obvious that when, for example, the Llaelese theme comes out we are not getting the gazillion releases Gravediggers or Northkin are getting, so please spare me your "Llaelese theme is gonna be able to take a Cygnar/Menoth unit so stfu".Try to play a non privileged faction first before telling me getting maybe an already existing unit while Cygnar gets their choice of all my models IN THEME on top of 6-10 new releases with every new theme is getting "new toys"
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 14, 2017 15:58:29 GMT
When the Llael theme drops, you'll get Gastone2, and access to plenty of goodies. The Pirate theme could be great. Infantry goes up in stock in SR17. And even the release of the Steelhead theme could be nice because all of this can go through CID. Well, all that was confirmed here were theme forces soon-ish (no dates). Any actual new releases are only an assumption at this point--and after a year of near-total silence, there's not a lot of benefit-of-the-doubt left in that area, you know? And I hope the pirate theme is good, but it's going to take something huge to make them work in the current meta. Low-ARM melee infantry are just dead weight these days, and Merc warcasters just can't deliver things into any sort of serious gunline.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 14, 2017 15:58:36 GMT
I must be the only Merc player here, because what I read there is "real factions are getting real theme forces with a lot of nice new releases -see Northkin, Gravediggers- but you'll be getting a crappy pdf which will solve nothing because Firetruck you" lol thanks for proving my point for me Dear God. Some one had an emotion! All this is proof of is that players are invested in the game and are experiencing tons disparity of expectations. They "expect" to have fair and equal model releases, theme forces, and overall treatment in terms of "attention". Now, none of these things *have* to be true. They are only expectation. But when things go against said expectations there is a back lash of emotion. But that doesn't make their point of view wrong, just due to having come from an emotion. You cannot deny that Mercs and Minions are getting very little in the way of models, when at the same time an entire faction is being released, tons of models are being created for main faction themes, and generally each main faction just got a pair of new warlocks and a beast/jack. That does make it seem like M/M is being neglected. Has PP come out and said "no models for you ever!". No. But what they have said is vague and with not even a hint at a time lime. They're theme might take 6-12 months or longer to show up. Where as other themes for the "favored" factions are coming out in short order through books and CID. Mercs/Minions and Convergence do deserve some attention through, probably, CID. Cygnar could have waited. Trolls, probably not as much, but still. They have shown a bias to pay more attention to a select few, before getting around to the rest out of requirement/obligation. Add to that the fact that now they want every faction to have Merc toys, but not giving anything to Mercs to make them feel like they actually were given any thought or consideration. It's frustrating.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 16:15:42 GMT
You seem to have read a different Soles statement that the one saying basically "we are gonna release a freakin pdf with maybe a single new release with merc themes" It's pretty obvious that when, for example, the Llaelese theme comes out we are not getting the gazillion releases Gravediggers or Northkin are getting, so please spare me your "Llaelese theme is gonna be able to take a Cygnar/Menoth unit so stfu".Try to play a non privileged faction first before telling me getting maybe an already existing unit while Cygnar gets their choice of all my models IN THEME on top of 6-10 new releases with every new theme is getting "new toys" Oops, forgot that I have to burn my Cygnar collection and play a "bad" faction before I get to have an oppinion. I play Rhulic. Does that count as a non-privileged faction? They certainly don't get many releases. I recently bought some Trollbloods. How many hours of play do I need before I have made ammends for my original sin of playing the blue-lightning-gun faction? The thing about "your" models is that they are mercenaries. Their loyalty can be bought, and they actually belong to every faction they can work for. It was your decision to main the faction composed of models that can work for many factions. That's what a mercenary is.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 16:19:36 GMT
When the Llael theme drops, you'll get Gastone2, and access to plenty of goodies. The Pirate theme could be great. Infantry goes up in stock in SR17. And even the release of the Steelhead theme could be nice because all of this can go through CID. Well, all that was confirmed here were theme forces soon-ish (no dates). Any actual new releases are only an assumption at this point--and after a year of near-total silence, there's not a lot of benefit-of-the-doubt left in that area, you know? And I hope the pirate theme is good, but it's going to take something huge to make them work in the current meta. Low-ARM melee infantry are just dead weight these days, and Merc warcasters just can't deliver things into any sort of serious gunline. There's literally no other time to release Gastone2. PP has yet to release a theme with 1 warcaster. I have no reason to think they will.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Jul 14, 2017 16:25:44 GMT
You seem to have read a different Soles statement that the one saying basically "we are gonna release a freakin pdf with maybe a single new release with merc themes" It's pretty obvious that when, for example, the Llaelese theme comes out we are not getting the gazillion releases Gravediggers or Northkin are getting, so please spare me your "Llaelese theme is gonna be able to take a Cygnar/Menoth unit so stfu".Try to play a non privileged faction first before telling me getting maybe an already existing unit while Cygnar gets their choice of all my models IN THEME on top of 6-10 new releases with every new theme is getting "new toys" Oops, forgot that I have to burn my Cygnar collection and play a "bad" faction before I get to have an oppinion. I play Rhulic. Does that count as a non-privileged faction? They certainly don't get many releases. I recently bought some Trollbloods. How many hours of play do I need before I have made ammends for my original sin of playing the blue-lightning-gun faction? The thing about "your" models is that they are mercenaries. Their loyalty can be bought, and they actually belong to every faction they can work for. It was your decision to main the faction composed of models that can work for many factions. That's what a mercenary is. This is so full of nonsense and so utterly disconnected from your first post saying "I dunno why mercs are sad" I'm not even gonna bother engaging on anrgument with you
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 16:43:30 GMT
Oops, forgot that I have to burn my Cygnar collection and play a "bad" faction before I get to have an oppinion. I play Rhulic. Does that count as a non-privileged faction? They certainly don't get many releases. I recently bought some Trollbloods. How many hours of play do I need before I have made ammends for my original sin of playing the blue-lightning-gun faction? The thing about "your" models is that they are mercenaries. Their loyalty can be bought, and they actually belong to every faction they can work for. It was your decision to main the faction composed of models that can work for many factions. That's what a mercenary is. This is so full of nonsense and so utterly disconnected from your first post saying "I dunno why mercs are sad" I'm not even gonna bother engaging on anrgument with you You're the one you brought up Cygnar privelige. I've grown so very tired of the notion that you have to play every faction you hold an oppinion about.
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 14, 2017 17:01:21 GMT
You're the one you brought up Cygnar privelige. I've grown so very tired of the notion that you have to play every faction you hold an oppinion about. I can have opinions about anything, but if I start preaching my opinion to those with more experience in a field, I can't be surprised if I get called on them. Still, it's nice to see that there's more stuff incoming for Minions, judging by the keynote. (edit) And hey, looks like you were right about Gastone.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 14, 2017 17:18:44 GMT
That Dracodile looks pretty bad ass. Too bad half the Minion Player population quit this week and burned their minis But hey apparently asking people to be rational and level headed is something one doesn't do this day and age. Also, as a loyal Khadoran, Firetruck that Gastone guy lol
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 17:27:25 GMT
Anyone wanna post a link to this stuff? Is it all a stream?
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on Jul 14, 2017 18:09:26 GMT
Hey, look at the Keynote! So many merc releases incoming! And so many for the Llael theme!
Wait... they are exactly the same: one.
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