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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 14:37:01 GMT
From the Mouth of Soles Himself
Well, now I just feel like a big fat jerk.
Honestly, the rest of his comments show a great awareness of the general complaints around the forums. I put this into the general section so that everybody could get a breath of relief.
Now I feel like a jerk. Maybe the guy doesn't know how to use his Exemplars, or his Gun Carriages, but fundamentally he's a nice guy.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 13, 2017 14:50:40 GMT
Where was this posted?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 14:52:27 GMT
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 13, 2017 15:06:17 GMT
Yeah. They're working on damage control over there. Lots of upset Minion players.
It's worth remembering that the PP staff likes Warmahordes. They aren't trying to damage the game. Let's all try to be helpful and polite on the CID, while retaining honesty.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jul 13, 2017 15:06:54 GMT
Interesting. Good to know they are going to look at Minions and Mercs. It also kind of confirms what Pagani said the other day in that the idea is that in relatively short order they want "In Theme" to be de-facto thought process for building lists. Which i'm not a fan of, but on the upside, at least they are not being coy or opaque about it, which is nice. @phoenix - just so! THat's why i don't post on CID. Being captain contrarian over there isn't going to help anyone. I have no doubt the direction the game is taking despite my not liking it is 100% from a point of making the game better, and not personal malice aimed at me.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 13, 2017 15:44:31 GMT
From the Mouth of Soles Himself Well, now I just feel like a big fat jerk. Honestly, the rest of his comments show a great awareness of the general complaints around the forums. I put this into the general section so that everybody could get a breath of relief. Now I feel like a jerk. Maybe the guy doesn't know how to use his Exemplars, or his Gun Carriages, but fundamentally he's a nice guy. Are you telling me the sky was not actually falling? Did the internet rage lead me astray? To be fair though, I think it's sad to see that there are community members that automatically assume that because PP wants to test RED at the moment it's because they obviously hate BLU. What part of "Development" don't people get?
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Jul 13, 2017 15:50:56 GMT
Well, now I just feel like a big fat jerk. Why do you feel like a jerk, Dragon? Are you usually mean to Soles? And now you feel like he is being nice to you? PP staff have always been dancing back and forth over a fine line. On one side of the line, they are extremely arrogant and claim that they know the game better than any players, playtested 3 years, only they know what is coming in the future, etc. On the other side of the line, if they start to feel like shit is actually starting to hit the fan, then they become extremely apologetic and explain that the community has so much to offer and they want to work with us and create the best game possible together, etc. And they regularly give players what they want - there was a campaign to get a Steelhead warcaster, so they gave us one, then there was a campaign to get Black Dragon Pikemen, so they gave us them. Heck, in the Mk2 field test there were many people who wanted PP to double the points scale so that there was more granularity. It was ignored in Mk2, but they gave it to us in Mk3. So this "we will give you what you want! honestly!" is not new behaviour I think. Like any business, they try and pay attention to what the customers are saying, and, if they can figure out a way how, they give it to us.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jul 13, 2017 15:51:21 GMT
From the Mouth of Soles Himself Well, now I just feel like a big fat jerk. Honestly, the rest of his comments show a great awareness of the general complaints around the forums. I put this into the general section so that everybody could get a breath of relief. Now I feel like a jerk. Maybe the guy doesn't know how to use his Exemplars, or his Gun Carriages, but fundamentally he's a nice guy. Are you telling me the sky was not actually fallen? Did the internet rage lead me astray? It certainly did! Except the whole part where no one ever claimed the sky was falling, much less with an iota of rage, but rather expressed disagreement with some things going on, which you in turn disagreed with. Things mind you that until Soles clarification, were opaque, justifying the criticism. I think the most anyone really reached was a particularly verbose expression of disagreement. If that's your threshold for rage, I wish i could view your reaction with a go-pro when someone informs a waiter they've received the wrong entree. (I'm kidding around of course, no offense intended). wishing and Rowdy Dragon - Agreed. There's no reason to feel ike a jerk. You expressed criticism at a situation that had no reason to believe anything was the case, which was mollified upon clarification. This is the normal give and take of discourse in a critique scenario. No need to feel bad about it.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 13, 2017 16:06:32 GMT
We need a flow chart on how to react to info from pp.
Is this big info? Do i have all the info? Has PP stated their intention of this info? Will more info be given soon? Is there a major Con where a big announcement around the corner? Will this info fundamentally change the way i play? Have i actually tested that or is that just when i theorycrafted it? Did i give constructive feedback on my actual testing? Did others agree with my feedback? Did PP agree with massive feedback and make a change that improves the issue i was concerned with? Am I overreacting to minor info? Should i take a deep breath and wait for more info?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 13, 2017 16:21:53 GMT
It certainly did! Except the whole part where no one ever claimed the sky was falling, much less with an iota of rage, but rather expressed disagreement with some things going on, which you in turn disagreed with. Things mind you that until Soles clarification, were opaque, justifying the criticism. I think the most anyone really reached was a particularly verbose expression of disagreement. If that's your threshold for rage, I wish i could view your reaction with a go-pro when someone informs a waiter they've received the wrong entree. (I'm kidding around of course, no offense intended). Right... PP needed to clarify this because people were being level headed and objective with their criticism. Did you miss the parts where people actually posted "This is an insult" and "it'slap to the face" or where they said "I'm quitting this game", or how about the very sensible, objective and passive aggressive posts that said "If you want to play minions, play Skorne" (admittedly, that was also passive aggressive on my part ). Also, I have pretty thick skin, it takes a lot to piss me off. Which is why it's so unimaginable to me how adults can make such a big deal about certain things.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 13, 2017 16:40:47 GMT
Which is why it's so unimaginable to me how adults can make such a big deal about certain things. A) Adults go berserk over basically everything all the time. B) People invest a lot of time, money, and emotion into this hobby. It being a big deal to them isn't unexpected. Ed Bourelle used to refer to WM/H as a "lifestyle hobby" which I always found incredibly interesting.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 13, 2017 16:41:38 GMT
Except the whole part where no one ever claimed the sky was falling, much less with an iota of rage, but rather expressed disagreement with some things going on, which you in turn disagreed with. Yeah, that's demonstrably false.
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Post by Aegis on Jul 13, 2017 17:08:19 GMT
Except the whole part where no one ever claimed the sky was falling, much less with an iota of rage, but rather expressed disagreement with some things going on, which you in turn disagreed with. Yeah, that's demonstrably false. I dunno the whole internet or all the posts ever, but most people seemed to me just greatly disagreeing with both inclusion of mercs in themes and the new Eilish. The people who talked about quitting or selling factions (people often quite level-headed, positive and calm like RandomTought as an example...) said it because this is/was another big step (after many other previous steps) in a direction that they don't like. I'm happy that Soles said they will deal more specifically with theme forces, instead to making a badly balanced general rule, but they were the first proposing the rule in a certain way at first, and the reactions were to the rules as proposed. Probably, exactly the vehement disagreement that they faced moved there toward this kind of solution (so it was helpful), otherwise, if they had already in mind to do a change like that, why posting a different (and a lot more unbalanced) thing just 2 days ago? That said, I look forward to see what they will come up with and I will evaluate when they give out something on how exactly they are going to "rebalance themes". 7 months ago I would have looked forward it sure that things would have been done in a good way, now I'm more cautious and I just wait and see (a little worried). I hope one day (as soon as possible) to be able to look forward again to the devs work sure that, even if maybe not perfect, will be always an improvement over the previous state of the game and not something that could make it worse.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 17:12:03 GMT
"Dooooom! Dooooooooooooooooom!" - The Internet on change.
Let's be honest, the guys who run PP like Warmachine. They don't have a board of directors, they aren't in it for the money, they still do what they do out of love. Granted they have to make more business minded decisions than they did years ago. But they do take interest in the community
They are probably here now, watching you sleep.......
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 13, 2017 17:15:30 GMT
Yeah this kind of confirms my Pinon that they wanted people top break and rage and see what mercenary options they should not give to doesn't lists. Like what made me think this originaly was pagani "sure why not" to every ridiculous option people would think up of. I think they were looking for what people would take to make their theme lists busted do that they made sure not to give those busted options when the real changes rolled around
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