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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 11, 2017 21:18:53 GMT
How about adding the following: A beast who fails a threshold check suffers 1d6 damage plus 1 for every fury on it. A beast who fails a threshold check may activate as normal, but cannot be forced. A beast who passes a threshold check may remove 1 fury.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 11, 2017 21:42:21 GMT
How about adding the following: A beast who fails a threshold check suffers 1d6 damage plus 1 for every fury on it. A beast who fails a threshold check may activate as normal, but cannot be forced. A beast who passes a threshold check may remove 1 fury. I actually really like this idea.
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Post by gobber on Jun 11, 2017 22:18:33 GMT
Doing that would necessitate a complete rework of pigs.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 11, 2017 22:42:16 GMT
Doing that would necessitate a complete rework of pigs. How so? Arkadius? Just write in that the beasts take no damage from the feat frenzy, and can be forced this turn. maybe add something small to him to compensate for the change.
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Post by gobber on Jun 12, 2017 0:26:37 GMT
Unless I'm misunderstanding your rule it basically removes the frenzy activation from the game. Arkadius would have to either give his beasts an entire extra activation, or lose his entire schtick. Not being able to charge on that activation is a huge problem. Furthermore, battle boars appear in ~90% of pig lists; primal is really central to our game plan. We're probably the one faction that regularly lets beasts frenzy, it's our primary fury management. I run razorboars infrequently enough as it is; I do not want them exploding themselves on top of all their previous problems.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 12, 2017 0:32:51 GMT
Unless I'm misunderstanding your rule it basically removes the frenzy activation from the game. Arkadius would have to either give his beasts an entire extra activation, or lose his entire schtick. Not being able to charge on that activation is a huge problem. Furthermore, battle boars appear in ~90% of pig lists; primal is really central to our game plan. We're probably the one faction that regularly lets beasts frenzy, it's our primary fury management. I run razorboars infrequently enough as it is; I do not want them exploding themselves on top of all their previous problems. Incorrect, Circle also does this.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 12, 2017 0:49:50 GMT
Unless I'm misunderstanding your rule it basically removes the frenzy activation from the game. Arkadius would have to either give his beasts an entire extra activation, or lose his entire schtick. Not being able to charge on that activation is a huge problem. Furthermore, battle boars appear in ~90% of pig lists; primal is really central to our game plan. We're probably the one faction that regularly lets beasts frenzy, it's our primary fury management. I run razorboars infrequently enough as it is; I do not want them exploding themselves on top of all their previous problems. Well, like I said, Arkadius' feat can change to include his beasts being exempt from my suggested fury rules. So, something like this: MONSTER MAYHEM "Warbeasts in Arkadius' battlegoup can immediately frenzy. A model can frenzy even if it has already activated this turn, and it can activate later this turn even if ot frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem. When a warbeast frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem, you can choose the warbeast's frenzy target if the target is in Arkadius' control range. (Here's the added part) Warbeasts do not suffer damage, or lose the ability to be forced, as a result of frenzying due to Monster Mayhem." Primal would need a change, not really sure what to do about that. Maybe create a special ability for some beasts? CONSTRUCTIVE RAGE "This warbeast does not suffer damage as a result of frenzying" Slap that on the Battle Boar and Gorax, and whatever other beasts have primal.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 12, 2017 1:11:33 GMT
Unless I'm misunderstanding your rule it basically removes the frenzy activation from the game. Arkadius would have to either give his beasts an entire extra activation, or lose his entire schtick. Not being able to charge on that activation is a huge problem. Furthermore, battle boars appear in ~90% of pig lists; primal is really central to our game plan. We're probably the one faction that regularly lets beasts frenzy, it's our primary fury management. I run razorboars infrequently enough as it is; I do not want them exploding themselves on top of all their previous problems. Well, like I said, Arkadius' feat can change to include his beasts being exempt from my suggested fury rules. So, something like this: MONSTER MAYHEM "Warbeasts in Arkadius' battlegoup can immediately frenzy. A model can frenzy even if it has already activated this turn, and it can activate later this turn even if ot frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem. When a warbeast frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem, you can choose the warbeast's frenzy target if the target is in Arkadius' control range. (Here's the added part) Warbeasts do not suffer damage, or lose the ability to be forced, as a result of frenzying due to Monster Mayhem." Primal would need a change, not really sure what to do about that. Maybe create a special ability for some beasts? CONSTRUCTIVE RAGE "This warbeast does not suffer damage as a result of frenzying" Slap that on the Battle Boar and Gorax, and whatever other beasts have primal. Problem is, then Primal goes from being a targeted buff to a self-only buff. And those factions rely on Primal to crack armor, so that's...not great.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 12, 2017 1:40:03 GMT
Well, like I said, Arkadius' feat can change to include his beasts being exempt from my suggested fury rules. So, something like this: MONSTER MAYHEM "Warbeasts in Arkadius' battlegoup can immediately frenzy. A model can frenzy even if it has already activated this turn, and it can activate later this turn even if ot frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem. When a warbeast frenzies as a result of Monster Mayhem, you can choose the warbeast's frenzy target if the target is in Arkadius' control range. (Here's the added part) Warbeasts do not suffer damage, or lose the ability to be forced, as a result of frenzying due to Monster Mayhem." Primal would need a change, not really sure what to do about that. Maybe create a special ability for some beasts? CONSTRUCTIVE RAGE "This warbeast does not suffer damage as a result of frenzying" Slap that on the Battle Boar and Gorax, and whatever other beasts have primal. Problem is, then Primal goes from being a targeted buff to a self-only buff. And those factions rely on Primal to crack armor, so that's...not great. I see your point... I guess primal would need a change to not include frenzying. But then factions would need more significant changes, and it's probably too complicated at that point. Back to the drawing board.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 12, 2017 2:01:23 GMT
Would it be too much if frenzy from Primal only dealt half damage?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 12, 2017 2:24:59 GMT
Would it be too much if frenzy from Primal only dealt half damage? It'd probably be fine, honestly - if Frenzy is changing to be less bad, the price for using primal is commensurately lower, and a bit of damage would be a fine trade-off IMO. Having said that, I'd personally pair it with a change that reduces the cost of targetted animi cast by a beast on itself by one - it's a bit dumb that the Feral never wants to primal itself, because the cost is too great, etc.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 12, 2017 2:54:18 GMT
I think the "remove one point on a successful frenzy check" would be fine. Because, quite honestly, making a frenzy check in many cases is worse than failing one, especially if you have more than 1 fury on the model in question. If I make a frenzy check on my Nephilim Soldier who is at max fury (Base thr 10 makes this not unlikely,) then I'm stuck with a beast that is getting less out of it's activation than if it frenzied, and can't be a transfer target for a second turn in a row. The ability to remove a fury on a succesful check would allow for more risk\reward strategies, where you can run slightly hotter and try to make a couple of smaller checks instead of leaving 1-2 beasts with max fury and hoping they do frenzy so they are actually useful that round.
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