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Post by DanX on Jun 5, 2017 13:54:16 GMT
In another thread it was mentioned we might get a new heavy Nephalim, some other people like the idea too.
My idea for one would be Nephalim Champion.
He would be 11/18 + a shield, and have Leadership Nephalim (At the end of his activation remove a fury from pther Nephalim in his command range.) He have a decent power on his main weapon, and a shield attack too. Boxes, Mat, Power varied to balance his points cost.
If he was to be in a box with an alternate build (so we got 2 or 3 heavies in once box) what kind of thing do you think would be cool? Of if he's rubbish what would be cooler?
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 5, 2017 14:09:06 GMT
I hope this doesn't count as necromancy, and not to toot my own horn, but I made this thread that asked the same question: lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/719/zuriel-heavy-nephilim-minus-azraelTL;DR Most people want a heavy comparable to an Ironclad, Juggernaut,Crusader, etc but worry about it being outside our #designspace or invalidating our more expensive heavies with casters such as Fyanna, Kryssa, or Thags2.
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Post by DanX on Jun 5, 2017 15:04:46 GMT
Oh, I missed that first time around - thanks its awesome.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 5, 2017 15:54:14 GMT
Beyond actual stats, themes that I feel new nephilim need to follow or full are:
1) Their intelligence and sociability. 2) Weapon and armour usage.
With those themes in mind, to borrow a comparison from the thread, if one were to make an rpg party from the nephilim, we already have a mage, archer, fighter, and tank. What's missing is a rogue and cleric/support. Conversely, if the bloodseer is the cleric, we need a mage.
I'd like to see and assassin style nephilim that was a cross between Blood of Martyrs and Zuriel.
As an aside, fluffwise, is there anything stopping Everblight from putting an Athanc into a Nephilim? Genetically their mutated elves. I think it's be up there with Typhon and Kallus as a true son of Everblight.
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Post by neutralyze on Jun 5, 2017 15:59:38 GMT
In another thread it was mentioned we might get a new heavy Nephalim, some other people like the idea too.
My idea for one would be Nephalim Champion.
He would be 11/18 + a shield, and have Leadership Nephalim (At the end of his activation remove a fury from pther Nephalim in his command range.) He have a decent power on his main weapon, and a shield attack too. Boxes, Mat, Power varied to balance his points cost.
If he was to be in a box with an alternate build (so we got 2 or 3 heavies in once box) what kind of thing do you think would be cool? Of if he's rubbish what would be cooler? By decent POW you mean 16, right?
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 5, 2017 16:24:45 GMT
I think decent, at least for a bargain heavy, is 16 reach with a 14 item fist. Personally, I'd trade the shield for a buckler and throw in another initial, be is a small spray+assault/point-blank/ dual attack or a bite.
He's probably be 25-28 boxes.
Oh and probably 1-2pts overcosted. Does eyeless sight do anything for melee models? I think blind immunity is the only benefit and beasts can shake that.
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Post by DanX on Jun 5, 2017 16:55:43 GMT
I think if it costs more than a Nerpah it has to be 16. If it was more than 16, it would tread on too many toes, but if its less than 16, then Nerpahs will be better. It can be worse than Zuriel by only have one PS16 attack, not being MAT8 and probably only being speed 5 if Tanky.
I guess as a decent barging heavy a Speed 5 heavy with 10/18 armour, 3 fury max and sounds fun. If you had multiple types one with a shield, one with a buckler and a chain. Reach and 16 sounds good. Reach might not be needed on both of them. I'm really struggling.
Tank Lights - 12/18 22 boxes Scout lights - 13/16 22 boxes Zuriel - 13/17 28 boxes Azurel - 12/18 32 boxes
Changing my mind, I guess a non character tank Heavy should be 11/18 and a scout Heavy 12/17, with 25-28 boxes. The tank heavy couldn't be in the same kit as the scout Heavy, so lets make the pair scout heavies. Won't tread on quite as many toes for the Land Sharks then. Speed is a real issue. Should these guys be Spd 5 or Spd 6?
At 12/17 being Speed 6 is probably OK, With a shield/buckler and a reach weapon on one of them some other weapon on the other They would be situationally not better than a Sythean. I don't think I would give them pathfinder. Flight though - they might look cool with wings.
Eyeless sight lets you charge though clouds, which stops one of the Zerkova's and High reclaimer being popular drops against us at least.
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Post by neutralyze on Jun 5, 2017 16:55:45 GMT
I think decent, at least for a bargain heavy, is 16 reach with a 14 item fist. Personally, I'd trade the shield for a buckler and throw in another initial, be is a small spray+assault/point-blank/ dual attack or a bite. He's probably be 25-28 boxes. Oh and probably 1-2pts overcosted. Does eyeless sight do anything for melee models? I think blind immunity is the only benefit and beasts can shake that. Ignores clouds for LOS.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 5, 2017 18:47:53 GMT
My mistake on Eyeless Sight, thought it lost clouds vision along with forest vision. Still relatively corner case with Legion's level of cloud generation.
Also, I just do some calculations to compare the damage output per points of a Neraph vs a Soldier. Assuming all attacks hit and rolls are 2d6=7 3d6=11, the Soldier is slightly more efficient against both ARM18 and ARM20 sitting at 1-1.5damage per point.
For reference, I also did calculations for each Faction's iconic heavy and averaged them all together for ~2.5dmg/pt for ARM18 and 1.8 for ARM20
Among the "light" heavies, IE Neraph, Archidon, and Satyrs, the values for ARM18/20 are 1.5-1.8/1-1.3, a far cry from the WM cheap heavies which sit at 2.2-3/1.8-2.1.
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on Jun 5, 2017 22:28:40 GMT
Some neph heavy ideas. Weapon master. Arc node. Taunt/tank style. Necromancer. Mount like Gracie can be in Malifaux. Granted los other neph through forest within command range. Feat replay that gives second use of feat, lol while wishlisting.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Jun 6, 2017 2:13:57 GMT
Speed 6, POW 16, 12/17 defensive stats, under 30 boxes? Guys you're asking for an overpriced Cryx jack as our next heavy, Cryx jacks are garbage even in the faction of 7 point POW/ARM swings, they'd be even worse in Legion.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jun 6, 2017 2:28:22 GMT
Speed 6, POW 16, 12/17 defensive stats, under 30 boxes? Guys you're asking for an overpriced Cryx jack as our next heavy, Cryx jacks are garbage even in the faction of 7 point POW/ARM swings, they'd be even worse in Legion. Most Cryx heavies are bad because they require Cryx Warcasters to spend Focus on them when they'd much rather be spending Focus on slinging spells and Cryx jacks lose systems too easily. Warlocks don't have that problem and Legion has a dizzying array of ways to buff beasts. Just think of how scary a Nephilim Heavy would be under Abby2, Thagrosh2, Vayl1, Fyanna2 as a few examples. Mind you this hypothetical Nephilim heavy would probably be better in Oracles than Children of the Dragon for most of our Warlocks but the point stands.
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Post by DanX on Jun 6, 2017 11:42:39 GMT
I'm very nearly really impressed with Unyielding. I've only got about 5 games in so far, and with double pots my list is very grindy and slow - making clock a real threat for me - but with more reps I will speed up, but 6 nephalim with unyielding are pleasingly tough. 13/18 is a great stat line. for a 9 point beast that can kill a cortex, or hit accurately. As I get more used to the list - I start to understand what matchups its good into and which it is bad into. CoD is pretty intresting. If one of the Nephalim Heavies was steady, it would be amazing in CoD!
I've often looked at Cryx Jacks and thought wow they are pretty amazing for their points...
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 6, 2017 11:58:49 GMT
Just now playing the Cryx I bought when someone quit, and Cryx jacks like the Seether and Slayer are fantastic for their points. Yes they are flimsy and can loose systems. But Life spirals and fury easily circumvent those two complaints.
I still vote for utility over beat stick.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jun 6, 2017 21:30:58 GMT
I'm imagining a heavily armored, screaming Nephilim, with various debuff effects, such as the Unsettling rule on the Glimmer Imp, Annoyance, and deafening on a typeless breath attack.
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