whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Jun 14, 2017 11:55:44 GMT
Tanking with Nephilims is ridiculous idea. But it would be nice to have at least one with arm higher than 18, right? Maybe everblight in his great wisdom tell some Nephilim to carry shiled Its quite trusted solution to help survive fight. But some poor Protector in CoD with Unielding can have ARM20 vs mele. 22 with Thags1. (Bloodseer with Spiny will reach 24, #Bloodseerspam2017) Im just little bit salty because I have impression than our garbage theme is blocking #designspace for interesting design concepts that could see table otherwise.
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Post by snotling on Jun 14, 2017 14:47:02 GMT
And how do you get spiny in CoD?
I'm not against nephelim that have a tanky role/are harder to kill. But having high arm deasnt seemm like the leagion way.
Up their def, give them some form of polarity field or poltergeist or regeneration ability instead.
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Post by maximumhippo on Jun 14, 2017 14:58:05 GMT
Man, I like CoD. It's a fun theme. And I've got a solid win rate with it. I mean, has anybody here really played it other than me? Like, really played it? Especially with Kryssa and Azrael it's pretty solid.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 14, 2017 15:26:46 GMT
Man, I like CoD. It's a fun theme. And I've got a solid win rate with it. I mean, has anybody here really played it other than me? Like, really played it? Especially with Kryssa and Azrael it's pretty solid. I've run it quite successfully with Bethayne and that's the list I'm sticking with for that caster. I've seen it played quite successfully under Kryssa and yet some how the player can do nothing but complain how "bad" it is. People have a perspective that the theme needs to get as many free points as possible to make it worth it. Then you're stuck with a bunch of lackluster beast that don't work up to their point value. I've run it just fine with only 50points of beast and a good infantry spread. But I can tell you no matter what success I've had, it will not win competitively. CotD is not bad, but It does not have the answers required for competitive things like Ghost Fleet, Khador jack lists, or Haley.
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 14, 2017 16:01:07 GMT
Man, I like CoD. It's a fun theme. And I've got a solid win rate with it. I mean, has anybody here really played it other than me? Like, really played it? Especially with Kryssa and Azrael it's pretty solid. I've run it quite successfully with Bethayne and that's the list I'm sticking with for that caster. I've seen it played quite successfully under Kryssa and yet some how the player can do nothing but complain how "bad" it is. There were a couple combo smite games where Kryssa in cotd was played and if my memory is correct he won both games pretty easily even though he spent the entire video complaining about how bad his list was.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 14, 2017 16:07:41 GMT
My main beef with CotD is that at first glance it appears to be a Nephilim theme with its restrictions and buff to the entire Nephilim chassis. However, in actually, it'd probably be better played as an infantry theme to deliver our delicious Swordsmen.
P.S. what kind of lists are people using with Kryssa and Bethayne?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 14, 2017 16:58:11 GMT
I've run it quite successfully with Bethayne and that's the list I'm sticking with for that caster. I've seen it played quite successfully under Kryssa and yet some how the player can do nothing but complain how "bad" it is. There were a couple combo smite games where Kryssa in cotd was played and if my memory is correct he won both games pretty easily even though he spent the entire video complaining about how bad his list was. t'was what I was referring to. I even sent a message to Nick on these forums about the game. He did forget shadow bind in the first game. But he was content that - yes it worked, but he didn't like the theme or Kryssa.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 14, 2017 17:13:08 GMT
My main beef with CotD is that at first glance it appears to be a Nephilim theme with its restrictions and buff to the entire Nephilim chassis. However, in actually, it'd probably be better played as an infantry theme to deliver our delicious Swordsmen. P.S. what kind of lists are people using with Kryssa and Bethayne? At the core of my Bethayne list it's double soldier, double bolt thrower, bloodseer, and harrier for 2 free models. Then a min unit of hex hunters with Bayal (free), min unit of swordsmen + UA (free), double warlords, double spell martyrs. That's not a full list but leaves plenty of room to fill in how you wish. full unit of swordsmen instead? possible. Black frost shard? not a bad choice. etc, etc... I did test it with min Legionnaires and Farilor. turning them into pow 10 weaponmasters on feat turn is nothing to scoff at. That way I could save the swordsmen for post-feat turns. Hex hunters charging into an infantry unit engaged by a bloodseer is sickeningly good. Mat 9, magic ability 8. So much value out of that. That was the pivotal moment that made me love the list. Well that and the charging warlord that would have (!) done 20 points of damage in a single swing (without disintegration). But double ones always appear at the most inopportune moments for my weapon masters.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jun 14, 2017 17:17:54 GMT
Winning a few games doesn't make a theme good. I'm sure Sons of the Tempest has picked up wins here and there as well but that doesn't mean that it's a viable theme to take if you're playing against the most competitive lists the game has to offer against some of the best players.
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Post by DakRamsin on Jun 14, 2017 17:39:11 GMT
Winning a few games doesn't make a theme good. I'm sure Sons of the Tempest has picked up wins here and there as well but that doesn't mean that it's a viable theme to take if you're playing against the most competitive lists the game has to offer against some of the best players. I don't know why people think non-viable = can't win ever. You see this sort of thinking all the time when discussing competitive games of any sort and it's always baffled me. Viability is all about win percentages over time, especially when compared to current meta lists you expect to see at any given event.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 14, 2017 18:03:42 GMT
Winning a few games doesn't make a theme good. I'm sure Sons of the Tempest has picked up wins here and there as well but that doesn't mean that it's a viable theme to take if you're playing against the most competitive lists the game has to offer against some of the best players. I don't know why people think non-viable = can't win ever. You see this sort of thinking all the time when discussing competitive games of any sort and it's always baffled me. Viability is all about win percentages over time, especially when compared to current meta lists you expect to see at any given event. That's just a difference in what people place value on. Some want to see tournament performance. So want a casual/interesting game. Neither perspective is wrong. But arguing one against the other will never get anywhere either. I win a lot with Kryssa and I love the caster. But I also am versed in the tournament pairings enough to know she would never do well as a tournament caster. She doesn't have the right tools. In terms of bad or not viable. JVM won with Rhyas. Why. Because she's really good? No, she was a surprise that the tournament scene was not accustom to and he's an exceptional player. But that neither increases nor decreases Rhyas' value or viability as a caster. Just as Whiskie said, a few wins doesn't make it good. But it does open the door to more discussion and thought when something does prove itself in the eyes of many.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jun 15, 2017 0:41:11 GMT
Maybe we could get a Choir for Nephilim.
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Post by DanX on Jun 15, 2017 10:06:40 GMT
My Kryssa list something like:
Special K - Az - Bloodseer - Soldier x2 - Boltthrower - Protector
Beastmistress (free) - Shredder - Shredder
Spawing Vessel Max x2 Archers Max + Free UA
Incubi (free) Sheperds x3
Objective Armory
The way it works is as follows:
Nephalim don't threaten very far, but Pot spawned Lessers threaten along way. So Initially jam with Lessers, (get 2 if possible turn one. Cluster archers in front of Pots daring opponent to kill them. Use shield guard to stop pots getting killed too easily. Put soldiers in places where they threaten things that might engage archers. On Feat turn, the two soliders and a small swarm of shredders (usually 4-5) kill several heavy threats. They've killed Worldwalrds, Khador heavies, Stormwall.
Mean while the threat that the archers and the pots have make up for the lack of speed buffs. The archers are great vs things like Def 17 Angelius.
If they kill the Archers - they go in the pot and they are close enough to shredder swarm and soldiers/azurel to be killed. If they kill the pots they are coming quite far forwards (because pots are at the back) and shooting Arm 18 10 box models that only cost me 7 points and gave me a shredder/harrier turn one. Best thing they can do is try to kill the soldiers - but they fly and find cover/concealment and are 13/18 in melee.
The big weakness of the list is Knockdown (like so much fun stuff in legion) it cancelling Unyielding and negating soldiers OK defence is very saddening.
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Post by socialirregular on Jun 15, 2017 19:00:15 GMT
People are talking about Heavy Nephalim, but I'm over here wondering what a Gargantuan Nephalim would look like. Maybe something like a MK but all Nephalim in appearance?
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Post by cainuslupus on Jun 15, 2017 21:27:47 GMT
Winning a few games doesn't make a theme good. I'm sure Sons of the Tempest has picked up wins here and there as well but that doesn't mean that it's a viable theme to take if you're playing against the most competitive lists the game has to offer against some of the best players. I don't know why people think non-viable = can't win ever. You see this sort of thinking all the time when discussing competitive games of any sort and it's always baffled me. Viability is all about win percentages over time, especially when compared to current meta lists you expect to see at any given event. So much this. I've won games with Saeryn1 (Steamroller games, mind you, not some fluffy hippie for fun stuff ), one with Caine2 who was completelly broken before errata. She was and still is crap caster, completelly gutted and lacking cohesive game plan. Whatever list you create for her - Thagrosh1 will do it better. Well, CotD is that category IMHO. And it's not fluffy either. Wasted opportunity to do something interesting with Nephilims which are something unique to Legion and really underplayed right now. Personally I prefer RoW for Bethayne. Far better benefits, good choice of stuff and fluffy as hell (the best theme in that regard IMHO).
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