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Post by DakRamsin on Jun 6, 2017 23:38:49 GMT
A Seether in Legion would be amazing, though the lack of pathfinder would limit the casters you'd want to take it with.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 7, 2017 15:28:29 GMT
I always thought that the defining characteristic of Nephilim should be their relative intelligence compared to beasts and their ability work in coordination with troops. To that end, I would see a "leader Neph" that granted Neph within command range "gang with friendly faction warrior models" (flank feels like it would be too strong). This one release alone would make the entire Children of the Dragon theme actually work.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 7, 2017 18:14:16 GMT
I just want generic Heavy Nephlim Shocktroopers to go with my custom Swordsman warlock - is that so hard?
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Post by maximumhippo on Jun 8, 2017 7:47:10 GMT
I always thought that the defining characteristic of Nephilim should be their relative intelligence compared to beasts and their ability work in coordination with troops. To that end, I would see a "leader Neph" that granted Neph within command range "gang with friendly faction warrior models" (flank feels like it would be too strong). This one release alone would make the entire Children of the Dragon theme actually work. Gang fighter on Nephilim would be really cool. That said, If we had a heavy non-character Neph, I'd like it to be something like a mauler or Bronzeback where its Fury 5 with 2x P+S 16 and some kind of damage buff animus (self of course because otherwise it'd be OP.) Like Flaming fists or maybe Purgation to ignore buffs/ get bonus for the enemy being buffed.
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Post by maximumhippo on Jun 8, 2017 7:48:39 GMT
If one of the Nephalim Heavies was steady, it would be amazing in CoD! Azrael is Serpentine, so he's kinda steady.
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Post by DanX on Jun 8, 2017 9:33:03 GMT
Yes, but you can only take him once (and only with Kryssa - who I love - but this is still a big restriction )
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Post by snotling on Jun 8, 2017 9:34:37 GMT
I always thought that the defining characteristic of Nephilim should be their relative intelligence compared to beasts and their ability work in coordination with troops. To that end, I would see a "leader Neph" that granted Neph within command range "gang with friendly faction warrior models" (flank feels like it would be too strong). This one release alone would make the entire Children of the Dragon theme actually work. Gang fighter on Nephilim would be really cool. That said, If we had a heavy non-character Neph, I'd like it to be something like a mauler or Bronzeback where its Fury 5 with 2x P+S 16 and some kind of damage buff animus (self of course because otherwise it'd be OP.) Like Flaming fists or maybe Purgation to ignore buffs/ get bonus for the enemy being buffed. If anything, potential heavy nephilim will be fury 3 instead of 4, as they are more controllable, not less. I just want a cheap 13/17 speed 6 beatstick with reach and a movement animus (repo 3 or something)
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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 8, 2017 18:33:13 GMT
Assuming a Nephilim heavy is meant to play nice within CoD, another idea that isn't a nephilim buffer or generic beatstick would be something that can protect/deliver Swordsmen/Shredders into melee. Maybe something similar to a Vigilant or Basilisk?
Put it on a "heavy" protector chassis, but instead of being a bodyguard it's more of a bulwark. Below is what' I'm thinking:
SPD5 STR11 MAT6 RAT4 DEF13 ARM18 CMD6 Fury3 15-16pts? RNG1" PS13 Shield RNG1" PS16 Sword
Blade Shield Leadership(Blade Shield) Shield Guard
Animus: Safeguard
EDIT: I figured I'd throw out a more offensive counterpart to the defensive beast I suggested:
SPD6 STR11 MAT7 RAT4 DEF13 ARM17 CMD6 Fury3 RNG2" PS16 Sword RNG1" PS15 Gauntlet(open fist)
Rapid Strike Flight
Animus: Still as Death
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Derpgionaire_of_Everblight
Guest
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Post by Derpgionaire_of_Everblight on Jun 10, 2017 4:56:14 GMT
Honestly, Nephlim lists tend to run into 3 major problems: They don't really have much punch, their low FURY stat keeps them from doing much when they do activate, and they have problems with mobility (despite that being one of Legion's major strengths).
Honestly, I think that if CotD is to become viable, then it needs to gain two heavy nephalims to address these problems; one for combat and one for leadership. As for what these might look like, well:
Nephilim Warbreed (or whatever they want to call it, the combat beatstick) Heavy Warbeast Statline: SPD 6, STR 11, MAT 7, RAT 4, DEF 14, ARM 16, CMD --, FURY 4 Boxes: 28
Blade Shield Eyeless Sight Strider
Weapons: Great Sword x2, 2" reach, P+S 15, Weaponmaster
Animus: Grants itself Berzerk (for potentially infinite extra attacks, because Legion doesn't have enough infantry clear, am I right?)
Points cost: 15-18? Not sure. FA: 2
The point of Weaponmaster on this beast is that it is a dragon-elf specifically designed to wage war and be a master at hand-to-hand combat. Weapon master and Blade Shield seem like the perfect ways to demonstrate this. It does pay for this though, having fewer boxes and low ARM to compensate for the offensive umph it possesses.
Nephalim Tyrant Nephalim Heavy Warbeast Stat line: SPD 7, STR 10, MAT 6, RAT 6, DEF 12, ARM 17, CMD 6, FURY 4 Boxes: 26
Dragon's Cunning (Friendly Nephalim models in this model's CMD range gain Gang (Friendly Faction Model).) Eyeless Sight Fly Sedate (Special action*, remove 1 Fury token from each warbeast in this model's battle group, as long as they are within their Warlock's Control range.)
Weapons: Hooked Pike: 2" reach, P+S 15, drag Shield: 1" reach, P+S 13, +2 arm
Animus: Wyrmtide (3 Fury, at the end of your turn, friendly faction Light and Lesser warbeasts in this model's CMD may advance up to 2".)
Points: 16-19? FA: 2
This model is all about supporting a swarm of warbeasts, with an emphasis on the Nephalim in the form of Gang. While it brings a LOT of utility and some decent support for CC lists, costs can be kept under control by how little combat potential the model innately possesses. Low p+s for a heavy, awful boxes, middling def and only 19 arm (only from the front) make it a model that doesn't actually want to get into combat, since it will handily lose against most other heavies.
Just a little thought experiment. And now back to lurking........
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Post by Deadneck on Jun 10, 2017 16:06:47 GMT
I think I would go in a different direction than heavy Nephilim. First I would add a leader:
Nephilim Warlord Legion Light Warbeast SPD: 6, STR 8, MAT 8, RAT 3, DEF 13, ARM 16 HP: 26
Leadership[Nephilim] - While in this model's command range, friendly Nephilim models gain Gang Fighter. Gang Fighter Eyeless Sight (Maybe Flight)
Double Claymore x2 POW 5, RNG 2, P+S 13 Weapon Master
Animus Lightning Strike: The spellcaster gains Sprint. Lightning Strike lasts for one turn.
PC: 14-16 FA: 2
Sort of a halfway between a heavy and light. I wouldn't add two since it would just make it harder to include Nephilim that already exist, which is counter to what we're trying to accomplish.
Secondly, I would test a change to the CotD theme to make all Nephilim in the same battlegroup count as a unit. I see Nephilim as having a sort of superheavy infantry roll in the Legion, considering that they are intelligent and capable of using weapons, which is also why I chose gang fighter, which combos with warrior models. This would work well with their nature as weaker, more spammable warbeasts. Rather than try to buff up one really tough Nephilim, you bring buffs that can affect all of them. Honestly if I could redesign Nephilim entirely I'd make them medium based warbeast packs. This might actually be brokenly overpowered, but I think it's worth considering.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Jun 10, 2017 17:32:27 GMT
Nephilim Warbreed (or whatever they want to call it, the combat beatstick) Heavy Warbeast Statline: SPD 6, STR 11, MAT 7, RAT 4, DEF 14, ARM 16, CMD --, FURY 4 Boxes: 28 Blade Shield Eyeless Sight Strider Weapons: Great Sword x2, 2" reach, P+S 15, Weaponmaster Animus: Grants itself Berzerk (for potentially infinite extra attacks, because Legion doesn't have enough infantry clear, am I right?) Points cost: 15-18? Not sure. FA: 2 This is your idea for fixing CotD ? You know, its awesome and broken beast for Fyanna in oracles Berserker with overtake, MAT7 and weaponmaster ? 16 def against shooting base ? Avarage POW more than Carni? 11" treat? Sounds more like 20+ points, FA:C and still everbody complaining this is broken. Tanky Nephilim also sounds great, but give him unielding from theme, Thags1 aura and... Such topic are nice to show that creating new stuff to this game is much harder than it's sounds
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 10, 2017 23:18:20 GMT
Guys no weapon master, please. The only weapon master beast is Molik, and he's a 19 point character.
Here's my idea. SPD 5, STR 10, MAT 7, RAT 5, DEF 13, ARM 18, FURY 4, THR 9, 17 points
Great Sword x2: POW 5, P+S 15, Reach 2"
Eyeless Sight Flight Gang Fighter Leadership (Nephilim) - Nephilim in this models command range gain Gang Fighter. Veteran Leader (Nephilim)
Animus - Still as Death
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Post by Deadneck on Jun 11, 2017 0:29:20 GMT
Guys no weapon master, please. The only weapon master beast is Molik, and he's a 19 point character. Just because he is the only one now does not mean this will continue to be true in the future. Consider that Field Marshal used to be Convergence only. And yes he is a 19 point character with weapon master. And future sight, combo strike, an animus for reposition 5, and bonded side step. The description of the Nephilim Soldier also describes them as being as skilled with swordsmanship as the Nyss, which to me means that it makes more sense to have a lower power weapon master light instead of a high power heavy for non characters.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 11, 2017 2:48:31 GMT
a non character nephilim gets weapon master but not Zuriel? haha, never gonna happen. dream up something else.
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Post by pstening on Jun 11, 2017 8:30:08 GMT
Giving zuriel weapon master would sort of fix him though
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