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Post by Soul Samurai on May 25, 2017 12:04:32 GMT
How about something simpler? Just give them back the ability to hit things with their very spikey shields. Trencher can tough all they want, but if each Kommando has 2 attacks, they can kill a downed Trencher with the second attack. Makes them really a light infantry killing unit, but that is their fluff. My only other alternative would be give a UA that gives a wider range of grenades (fluff them as being developed from captured Golden Crucible tech from Llael). The launcher is single shot, so no reason they can't change the grenade type if someone carries the supplies. But that would give them three attacks on the charge thanks to Assault. To be honest I don't even think that would even be particularly useful: without Reach you are definitely getting diminishing returns after the second attack. I guess it would be good for dealing with high DEF low ARM, but how much of that is there running around these days? |
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Post by Cryptix on May 25, 2017 12:19:19 GMT
dogganm it I meant give AKs that rule to help then against Trenchers. I was tired.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 25, 2017 12:23:11 GMT
dogganm it I meant give AKs that rule to help then against Trenchers. I was tired. I figured, I was just trolling a bit. |
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Post by borderprince on May 25, 2017 13:06:40 GMT
But that would give them three attacks on the charge thanks to Assault. To be honest I don't even think that would even be particularly useful: without Reach you are definitely getting diminishing returns after the second attack. I guess it would be good for dealing with high DEF low ARM, but how much of that is there running around these days? Think of it like this: (1) AK attacks aren't that high quality in terms of accuracy or power. Giving them quantity of attacks gives them an improved chance to take out other infantry and keeps them different to other models. It also feels quite Khadoran to me - nothing special, but lots of it; (2) An extra melee attack gives you double-dipping on anti-tough tech - hit with the grenade on the assault or a second melee attack if required. I appreciate the reach point, but it's not about taking out lots of models. It's about having a good chance of taking out the one you target (similarly, charge into set defense units - miss with the charge vs the buffed DEF, but the second attack still gives you a chance); (3) You can stay in Shieldwall and still get two attacks. So you can walk into melee (does happen once the lines are engaged)/be engaged, get the ARM bonus and have a decent chance of taking out enemy infantry, even ones with tough. Remember that AK have no anti-tough tech at present once they are engaged. There is also something of a clash between Shieldwall and needing to charge to get decent melee potential with them. I think this would make them unique among shieldwall models too; (4) It explains why they have spikes on the shields. PP doesn't usually take the modelling approach of adding spikes to make things cool and edgy, so make them functional. AKs are even meant to be carrying combat shields, but don't do anything with them beyond what all other shields do. I think only Helga is a warrior with a shield for a weapon at the moment. (5) It's simple - no complicated rules, just an extra weapon on the front of the card. They're still an anti-infantry unit, but that is what they are meant to be in the fluff. That's not an ideal niche in the current meta, but some themes are changing that. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 25, 2017 13:14:59 GMT
Some good points, though I just don't see PP giving them three attacks... even though they had three attacks in MkII... I dunno, like the grenades thing it didn't seem to be enough to get people to take them in MkII, so I don't know that it would make much difference here? Pure speculation obviously.
BTW MOW Kovnik now gets to hit stuff with his shield.
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Post by Netherby on May 25, 2017 14:45:28 GMT
The problem in Mk2 was that they couldn't actually hit anything. The problem in Mk3 is that they can't actually damage anything.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on May 25, 2017 15:23:40 GMT
The problem in Mk2 was that they couldn't actually hit anything. The problem in Mk3 is that they can't actually damage anything. They are pretty good assaulting with last stand from strak2 |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 15:24:50 GMT
I'd say their problem is a lack of focus. Even if they had extra attacks, nobody would still take them over WGI. Paying more points for a Niche that does less than your lower point bretheren is kinda..Badish.
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Post by AdeptusB on May 26, 2017 1:39:33 GMT
I'd say their problem is a lack of focus. Even if they had extra attacks, nobody would still take them over WGI. Paying more points for a Niche that does less than your lower point bretheren is kinda..Badish. Between Shield Wall and immunities, they are good at holding objectives. So there's that... But I agree with Netherby- their lack of damage potential is near-fatal. I hate the fact that the main utility of 'elite commandos' is strictly defensive, rather than, you know, commando-ing. |
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Post by Cryptix on May 26, 2017 1:55:39 GMT
Wait a minute, what if they had a combo grievous wounds/anatomical precision on their carbines?
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Post by skathrex on May 26, 2017 6:32:52 GMT
Wait a minute, what if they had a combo grievous wounds/anatomical precision on their carbines? That would be pretty cool. Grievous wound is something khador lacks |
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 26, 2017 8:04:07 GMT
Do you mean on their ranged attacks or on their melee attacks?
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Post by Cryptix on May 26, 2017 10:23:23 GMT
On ranged attacks. Might be grenade stays the same, rifle is anatomical precision.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 26, 2017 12:23:51 GMT
I think an AK theme might follow the Trencher CID. It makes sense given we know that theres a CA on the way which will get tested and they're meant to be anti-Trenchers. Plus Strak2 came out and stuff.
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Post by droopingpuppy on May 27, 2017 12:37:31 GMT
As a Cygnar gamer that like Trenchers, I think that Assault Kommando is a worthy foe of them and they deserve at least the same treatments as Trencher does(as hope for good buff for the Trenchers - not so slightly for the bad groups, and not overpowered either). So I hope that they are buffed well, such as having more branches, more supports and more tricks.
Anyway, it is somewhat weird that Trencher has so many branches while Assault Kommando has not much, despite Trencher Infantry is released in Prime MKI and Assault Kommando is released in Superiority(the third expasion book of MKI). They have only three books of gap, and at Superiority Trenchers have the basic unit, CA, WA and a character solo.
Perhaps, because Trencher's basic counterpart is Winter Guard? Trencher is the basic line troopers of Cygnar and Assault Kommando is a kind of elite force so it may a reason to have not much a branch. Like as Iron Fang, that only have three branches and one of them is the unit of the veteran. And their foundation is not so far either(only about 6 years, on 610 AR), unlike Iron Fangs.
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