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Post by skathrex on May 19, 2017 12:51:22 GMT
WG is definatly not a bad place for Strakov1. I liked your list too. Its a good attriton list. Atm the question for me Boils down to a test that I am running atm. How good an Overrun trigger is the Destroyer (or Conquest). Behemoth is great, but sometimes its simply just better to shoot stuff with him that is a bit more on the tough side. If the Destroyer is a reasonable good enabler of Overrun then it would open up the themes quite a bit for Strakov1. I am not sure how good Conquest is, just because his Main gun often doesn't want to shoot small stuff, but maybe you have more experience to share on that topic. borderprince : The WG may ne really benefit from Strakov1, but he and his playstile really like what they are bringing. Rng support to soften up the targets is nice, both theme benefits really help his army to pressure and be active. And WGI with feat are not to bad. I like both your lists and played some like that myself with small variations. Your jaws list is missing 1 free Card. I would take out the widowmakers and make the UA for the Assasins free to add mechaniks plus 2 Units of eliminators. As I mentioned before I think SK1 really likes himself some rng support, so I will try him with 1-2 Destroyers in jaws, maybe when they turn out to be reasonable good with a marshalled Behemoth though that still gives me a weird feeling. Edit for auraco : The Beast Version looks really fun. Behemoth + conquest means a lot of shooting and Arm-Cracking maybe thats the way to go. The Groaler is close to your heart and I slowly understand why, but for me is a bit flip,flop. There are some caster that he is really awesome against, and others where hes just not better than an Juggernaut. And I am not sure I am willing to pay that 5-6 points for him. I think 4-6 jacks with Forge Seers is a good spot for Strakov in Jaws. Sometimes I want more Jacks to come into the Jackspam region, but than I run into Focus problems. Fun idea and big hope. If they give the GC in the CID the ability to AD a jack I would love to go with WGI+GC+Jacks for SK1. |
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Post by auraco on May 19, 2017 13:22:59 GMT
Let me know how the destroyer is a triggering overrun. I like the conquest and the behemoth because they have multiple shot so if you miss a rat 4 shot you have a backup shot. Conquest has been a very reliable trigger so far, 4 secondary gun shots will end up killing something unless your opponent is playing an army that is immune to blast. This usually leaves me with focus for the main gun shot in something heavier. In theory the destroyer isn't necessarely a bad choice, I just don't like banking overrun on only 1 rat 4 shot, because if you miss you've wasted a LOT of focus for nothing. Two or five rat 4 shot sounds more reasonable.
I agree that Strakhov likes his range support, it's one of the reason why I also like the winterguard infantry with him, they can clear charge lanes and with reposition 3 on the unit they can get out of the way of the jacks.
I like the grolar for more than just killing casters, heavy boiler and native pathfinder are a big part of it too, with heavy boiler it can be better positioned on turn two for a good overrun and native pathfinder mean it can move pretty much anywhere, including on overrun move, without needing to go around terrain or relying on the feat to do so. I do understand it is expansive and with most caster I would go for a juggernaut instead, but with Strakhov's toolset the two of them are more together than the sum of their parts if you ask me.
If they do end up including the GC in what can give advance move to the jacks in WGK I'll be trying it for sure.
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Post by GumbaFish on May 19, 2017 13:39:49 GMT
What kind of matchups are you guys playing Strakhov 1 into? I was chatting with a guy at the shop last night and he convinced me Strakhov 1 sounds pretty fun to play so I picked him up. Afterwards I went and thought up this list which seems pretty fun though perhaps too melee centric? I'm mostly curious what this list can or can't handle so I can figure out what a second list would look like. I'm looking forward to putting him on the table in a few weeks when work allows. conflictchamber.com/#b31b_-0x7c7w0d0d7s7shFhF868A8B8G8GKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf (Strakhov 1) Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Behemoth [25] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [0(4)] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] |
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Post by auraco on May 19, 2017 13:57:06 GMT
Anthing but a big arm skew and Ghost fleet incorporeal spam style list.
I've played against a lot of different kind of list and never really felt like it was a bad match up, my loss were mostly due to my own mistake or dices roling hot rather than a really bad match up at list selection.
Have a ghost fleet drop ready as your other list though, no magic attack and no RFP means a bad time against that.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 20, 2017 19:48:24 GMT
If you want a model with multiple ranged attacks for triggering Overrun, how about Torch? Three shots at Rat 5, of which two are AOEs and one is a spray...
Yes, I know, the range and POW are very low. It's just that he's Torch; he must be useful for Strakhov somehow?
Decimator? Two shots for only 16 points?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 21, 2017 8:09:03 GMT
auraco, can we chat for a minute about Strak in Jaws? I've been looking for a caster to play in Jaws with all of the assassins as a 2nd list that can deal a lot of hurt to infantry heavy lists where you might not want Karchev. I've got Karchev for covering dedicated armor cracking, and I figure if I ever see it I'd use it against Ghost Fleet. So here's where my head is at... Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Oleg Strakhov - WJ: +28 - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Marauder - PC: 10 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 0 I have maybe a 3-4 games in with Strakhov, so not a ton of experience. I was thinking about the following tactics in this set up... 1) I like the full assassin boat because of the feat. Assassins main weakness is there threat range and lack of pathfinder, and Strak completely fixes both of these shortcomings. The Eliminators, with 14.5" threat, are going to force your opponent to play their caster really far back. 2) I designed the list to get to 75 warjack points for the 3 free models...I wanted the Underboss for free, and the 2 forgeseers. My limited experience with Strak made me feel like his biggest weakness was damage output, and the extra focus for the jacks is going to really help with that, I think. I'm 3 points over so technically I could drop the Kodiak to a Marauder for Battle Mechanics, but I don't think I want to lose the Kodiak. I like having the second jack with Pathfinder, and since this would be for heavier infantry drops I like having the Vent Steam...and 10" of movement Turn 1. 3) In terms of the jack configuration and spell layout... A. Occultation on Strakhov. Without WG sac pawns I think I want this added layer of protection. B. Sentry on Behemoth. Behemoth will be my reliable overrun trigger. C. Superiority on the Grolar. Am I doing this math right...20" of nonlinear charge range threat on feat turn...6" superiority move, 14" charge. And if there's are dudes in the way I can packman through them 1" per hit (and that's hit...right...and I don't need to kill). Seems legit. With the Forge Seers I've got the focus... Seems totally legit.
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Post by Netherby on May 21, 2017 12:22:06 GMT
Need to double check the interaction on Ram with the Grolar. I think it says advance directly towards? So if you kill the model you can't get the 1" advance. Unless you advance on hit, before you roll damage. But it would still have to be towards the model.
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Post by skathrex on May 21, 2017 12:30:21 GMT
That's a really solid list @armchair Warrior. And that's not only because I build the exact same list (with the mechanics).
It's one of the list I am pondering atm. I prefer the all jack Jaws Variant atm. Just because I want a Jack skew in my pairing. But if you other list is Karchev already. This can be a good supplement. Especially against infantry lists.
The list has the right amount of Jacks to be very resilient while not running into focus problems
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 21, 2017 13:11:35 GMT
Need to double check the interaction on Ram with the Grolar. I think it says advance directly towards? So if you kill the model you can't get the 1" advance. Unless you advance on hit, before you roll damage. But it would still have to be towards the model. I'm referring to page 92 in the PDF (timing sequence), and the rule on the Grolar's card which reads: Note that Ram is made before the damage of the attack, since it's on hit and not after the attack is resolved. You get your your Ram movement, because it's resolved before damage. By comparison, look at the way Beat Back on the Decimator's card is worded. In this application, Ram is strictly better than overtake unless you're hitting a model that can't be pushed. That's a really solid list @armchair Warrior. And that's not only because I build the exact same list (with the mechanics). It's one of the list I am pondering atm. I prefer the all jack Jaws Variant atm. Just because I want a Jack skew in my pairing. But if you other list is Karchev already. This can be a good supplement. Especially against infantry lists. The list has the right amount of Jacks to be very resilient while not running into focus problems I see why you like the all jack list but in my pairing that would be redundant with what I'm doing with Karchev. I'm searching for a list pairing which fits the following criteria: - Will handle jack-killer weapon master spam lists. - Stands up well to a gunline, so my force can still get the alpha. - Is combined arms. I like playing at least 4-5 jacks with 2-3 good piece trade jacks. - Isn't dudespam, since I struggle in those situations handling my clock. I started with Butcher 3, and like him, but he's a bit redundant with Karchev and does nothing to deliver his troops. I've been playing Vlad 1 rocketspam lately, but struggle with the clock. So I'm dating other ideas. I like the idea of Zerkova 1 (haven't tried her yet though). I don't know why I didn't think about Strakhov. Seems perfect. I don't have a ton of experience with him (less than a half-dozen games ever), but the matchups I struggled with are (I think) ones Karchev is going to handle really well. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 22, 2017 9:34:06 GMT
Played Strakhov1 in Legion of Steel against Haley2 Heavy Metal at the weekend and won on assassination on turn 3 via Torch to face. Didn't play the pikemen unit very well, should have run turn 1 with stealth, then I'd have the mini-feat for Haley2's turn 1 feat. That would let them walk 11 under her feat and engage the chargers and some other bits, which would have helped me a lot.
Very pleased with the list!
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by jonesyr123 on May 22, 2017 9:54:18 GMT
Played Strakhov1 in Legion of Steel against Haley2 Heavy Metal at the weekend and won on assassination on turn 3 via Torch to face. Didn't play the pikemen unit very well, should have run turn 1 with stealth, then I'd have the mini-feat for Haley2's turn 1 feat. That would let them walk 11 under her feat and engage the chargers and some other bits, which would have helped me a lot. Very pleased with the list! Cheers, Dave What was the list you used I've been running legion of steel with double pikeman so doesn't leave much room for many Jack's |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 22, 2017 9:59:33 GMT
Here's my current list:
Legion of Steel
Strakhov1 +28
-Destroyer -14
-Juggernaut -12
-Torch -18
Iron Fang Kovnik -0
Iron Fang Kovnik -0
Ulhan Kovnilk Markov -7
Great Bears -9
Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) -15
-Iron Fang Officer & Standard -4
Iron Fang Ulhans (Min) -12
Iron Fang Ulhans (Min) -12
I feel one pikemen unit is enough since you can only put Occultation in one place anyway. They get it turn 1 until they engage (turn 2 really) then it probably switches to Strakhov depending on your opponents stuff.
Looking back at the Haley2 game, I advance moved, mini-feated and shield walled the iron fangs turn 1, going first. If I had ran them and saved the mini-feat for Haley's feat turn I would have been in a very good spot straight away. Just need to limit how many she can get despite stealth, but it's actually not too many if she wants to keep pieces safe from the ulhans and jacks behind.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by welshhoppo on May 22, 2017 11:53:29 GMT
Wouldn't have thought that LoS would be good with Hov1. How does it play and how do you find the pikemen?
Or are you using it for Uhlan silliness.
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Post by skathrex on May 22, 2017 11:55:08 GMT
thebuoyancyofwater : Oh darn, thats another list I want to try now.... Was triggering Overrun with the Destroyer reliable or do you feel you got lucky? @armchair Warrior: Well then it looks like that list fits exactly what you need. Can't really add much.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 22, 2017 12:05:52 GMT
Actually, the key Overrun was triggered by Strakhov himself killing a stormpod that had tried to block some ulhans. If that couldn't be done I would go for Overrun on the juggernaut, setting things up so it finished the stormwall after the right number of ulhans charged in.
Something to note is that Cygnar needs to be really careful using pods in the match up. One in a wrong place and they just provide Overrun targets. At the very least it's a Sentry target.
Cheers,
Dave
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