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Post by jonesyr123 on May 18, 2017 14:25:19 GMT
I've just started to play khador and really like strakov what does he synergyize best with and is it better in a theme or out of a theme?
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Post by auraco on May 18, 2017 14:32:13 GMT
Strakhov1 or Strakhov2, they are wildly different who run very different lists.
My favorite list with Strakhov1 is in winterguard kommand with a couple of jacks for overrun and the conquest to trigger it. I plan on trying him in jaws of the wolf soon, he wants a big battlegroup because overrun is Strakhov's money spell and the more jacks on the table the more angle he can use to get the most out of that spell.
I've run Strakhov2 in legion of steel with a small battlegroup and one of each iron fang unit (pikemen, ulhan and great bears).
Been having a lot of success with both.
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Post by jonesyr123 on May 18, 2017 14:55:17 GMT
It was mainly strakov1 I was looking at but both seem really fun to play
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 18, 2017 15:15:06 GMT
I'm actually planning on trying Strakhov1 in Legion of Steel in the coming week. Ulhans threat hellafar with him and some iron fangs (who can have Occultation if desired) are excellent, massive charge range followed by a 5" reform into shield wall. Running Torch (you have to try Superiority, Overrun and sprint together, it's amazing), a juggernaut (simple beatstick) and a destroyer (Sentry target and Overrun trigger).
Creates an army that hits very hard from far away, which is good at forcing control casters to feat at a time when you can simply back off. Also full of high ARM models with stealth on whichever model your opponent has the best guns for, and has a fairly large amount of non-normal movement through reposition, Overrun and sprint.
Will hopefully test this weekend, if not next week!
Cheers, Dave
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Post by jonesyr123 on May 18, 2017 15:22:20 GMT
Is it worth running him in jaws because of behemoth or is torch just better for him?
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Post by auraco on May 18, 2017 16:00:20 GMT
I think Torch is terrible for him actually but running him in jaws of the wolf for behemoth is legit.
The problem with Torch is his low pow for a 18 points heavy and Strakhov's lack of hitting power buff. Sprint sounds cool, but for 18 points I can assure you the Grolar is better. Native pathfinder instead of relentless charge makes it a very good jack to use overrun.
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Post by AdeptusB on May 18, 2017 19:04:12 GMT
I hope we get a new version of Strak's MkII 'Black Ops' theme fairly soon, so I can justify my Assault Kommandos...
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Post by skathrex on May 19, 2017 6:45:09 GMT
I would sooo love to run AKs again.
Back to topic: Imo you can run Strakov1 in a huge variety of ways if you just keep in mind that you need a Jack to trigger overrun on rng.
Out of theme he often has a pretty small army because every thing he likes is expensive. Behemoth, Ruin, Torch, Groalar, Uhlans etc.
In theme, because he is limited on such things his armys become much better in attrition but lose some of their Assasination power.
One of the key things you will start to notice when playing Strakov1 is how bad the dmg output our Jacks actually is out of feat. Spending 1 for the charge really hurts and even our beatstick heavy, the Juggernaut just deals around 24-28 dmg to an ARM20 opponent. The only way to counter that imo is either the feat (free charge) or just to include some kind of shooting to soften up your targets before overruning a target to them. This of course means you need probably more shooting than just your Overrun trigger.
WG-Theme is great for that ofcourse but I find that Strakov really doesn't do a lot for the rockets.
Jaws of course is a great place for Strakov1, more focus threw seers helps a lot and Eliminators, Assasins and Widowmakers work pretty good with him (also he can take Behemoth).
To summerize I am always torn on what to take with him because he is so versatile.
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Post by borderprince on May 19, 2017 7:44:00 GMT
One of the key things you will start to notice when playing Strakov1 is how bad the dmg output our Jacks actually is out of feat. Spending 1 for the charge really hurts and even our beatstick heavy, the Juggernaut just deals around 24-28 dmg to an ARM20 opponent. The only way to counter that imo is either the feat (free charge) or just to include some kind of shooting to soften up your targets before overruning a target to them. This of course means you need probably more shooting than just your Overrun trigger. If you can find the points and are out of theme (or WGK, but it's not the best for Strakhov1), Malakov1 can help with the damage side of things. A Redlined jack benefits lots from Strakhov's feat. 14" charge threat on a P+S21 Juggernaut that has charged for free and can be full of focus without help from Strakhov is a very dangerous Juggernaut. Don't forget that Superiority is not a battlegroup only spell. Strakhov1 can cast it on a marshalled jack if you want. Might help in some situations.
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Post by skathrex on May 19, 2017 8:15:44 GMT
One of the key things you will start to notice when playing Strakov1 is how bad the dmg output our Jacks actually is out of feat. Spending 1 for the charge really hurts and even our beatstick heavy, the Juggernaut just deals around 24-28 dmg to an ARM20 opponent. The only way to counter that imo is either the feat (free charge) or just to include some kind of shooting to soften up your targets before overruning a target to them. This of course means you need probably more shooting than just your Overrun trigger. If you can find the points and are out of theme (or WGK, but it's not the best for Strakhov1), Malakov1 can help with the damage side of things. A Redlined jack benefits lots from Strakhov's feat. 14" charge threat on a P+S21 Juggernaut that has charged for free and can be full of focus without help from Strakhov is a very dangerous Juggernaut. Thats something I thought about in the past, but that doesn't help with one of the initial problems I am having. One of the best things about SK1 is his ability to just charge a jack 16" without feat (Sup+Overrun+Feat). And thats the Jugger (or Marauder) that lacks the dmg. While in Feat I rarely see a problem with the dmg. So its just the wrong timing for it to matter (for me)
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Post by auraco on May 19, 2017 11:47:30 GMT
One of the key things you will start to notice when playing Strakov1 is how bad the dmg output our Jacks actually is out of feat. Spending 1 for the charge really hurts and even our beatstick heavy, the Juggernaut just deals around 24-28 dmg to an ARM20 opponent. The only way to counter that imo is either the feat (free charge) or just to include some kind of shooting to soften up your targets before overruning a target to them. This of course means you need probably more shooting than just your Overrun trigger. If you can find the points and are out of theme (or WGK, but it's not the best for Strakhov1), Malakov1 can help with the damage side of things. A Redlined jack benefits lots from Strakhov's feat. 14" charge threat on a P+S21 Juggernaut that has charged for free and can be full of focus without help from Strakhov is a very dangerous Juggernaut. Don't forget that Superiority is not a battlegroup only spell. Strakhov1 can cast it on a marshalled jack if you want. Might help in some situations. Overrun only works for battlegroup stuff, I'm really not sold on the giving a jack to Malakov1 or a jack marshall. Yeah the feat can help with that, but I think a Strakhov1 list should be built around overrun not the feat. Also why do you think WGK is not the beast for Strakhov? I've been playing him a lot and so far I haven't found anything out of tier that is as good as running him in WGK. I will try him in jaws of the wolf, which might be better, or as good, but I don't see an out of tier list doing as well.
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Post by jonesyr123 on May 19, 2017 11:58:26 GMT
How many Jack's to you usefully want in the battle group 5 ish
War Room Army
Khador - New Army
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 2 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Kommander Oleg Strakhov - WJ: +28 - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 4 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 05/19/2017 12:55:53 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
Or this
War Room Army
Khador - New Army
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 2 / 2 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Kommander Oleg Strakhov - WJ: +28 - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Marauder - PC: 10
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 0
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand ---
GENERATED : 05/19/2017 12:58:19 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by borderprince on May 19, 2017 12:13:45 GMT
Also why do you think WGK is not the beast for Strakhov? I've been playing him a lot and so far I haven't found anything out of tier that is as good as running him in WGK. I will try him in jaws of the wolf, which might be better, or as good, but I don't see an out of tier list doing as well. Strakhov (at least for me) doesn't give that much to the WG (rifles or infantry), and they don't give that much to him other than Sac Pawn. The meaningful melee presence is essentially jacks, but he doesn't have the focus to run many of them that well in melee. The only real ranged buff is Occultation (helps win the shooting war), but you'll often want that on Strakhov himself. I just find it doesn't synergize as well as other options for WGK. Jaws, I think, is likely to be a better option. Strakhov works well with Eliminators. He also works well with Yuri and Manhunters to get some powerful melee attacks in awkward places.
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Post by auraco on May 19, 2017 12:25:30 GMT
From experience I'd say you want either 4 or 5 heavies or 3 heavies and a conquest. I would also never leave home without a grolar for a Strakhov list, but that is probably personal preference. Strakhov's only way to give pathfinder to his army is with his feat, so I like model with native pathfinder to navigate terrain outside the feat turn. That probably depends on how terrain heavy your meta is, but we use a lot of terrain in my parts and the SR2017 method of placing terrain support heavy use of terrain.
My standard WGK list is the following: Strakhov1 Conquest Grolar Juggernaut Juggernaut Kovnik joe Full WGI +3 rocket +CA Field gun
The Jaw of the wolf list I will be trying are the following The full retard version Strakhov1 Conquest Behemoth Grolar Juggernaut Maraudeur Forge Seer Forge Seer Marksman Manhunter
The tame version Strakhov1 Behemoth Grolar Juggernaut Juggernaut Marksman Kayazy assassin +CA Eliminators Eliminators Widowmakers Min mechaniks
Will try to clock in games with these lists in the next days.
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Post by auraco on May 19, 2017 12:36:01 GMT
Also why do you think WGK is not the beast for Strakhov? I've been playing him a lot and so far I haven't found anything out of tier that is as good as running him in WGK. I will try him in jaws of the wolf, which might be better, or as good, but I don't see an out of tier list doing as well. Strakhov (at least for me) doesn't give that much to the WG (rifles or infantry), and they don't give that much to him other than Sac Pawn. The meaningful melee presence is essentially jacks, but he doesn't have the focus to run many of them that well in melee. The only real ranged buff is Occultation (helps win the shooting war), but you'll often want that on Strakhov himself. I just find it doesn't synergize as well as other options for WGK. Jaws, I think, is likely to be a better option. Strakhov works well with Eliminators. He also works well with Yuri and Manhunters to get some powerful melee attacks in awkward places. I've played both kind of winterguard units with Strakhov1 and winterguard infantry are definitively the way to go with him and don't discount occultation on them, it's probably one of the best buff they can get. With reposition thanks to the UA and the mini feat once they get engaged they can do a lot of work for a unit that is not that expansive in theme thanks to the free points. They have not disapointed me so far in about 20 games. I have yet to have Strakhov die in about 20 games with him, even the posibility of sac pawning onto stealthed winterguard is usually enough to dissuade people to try to kill him, that and in the version I run with the conquest he can usually hide behind the conquest and stay safe even without occultation. I will be playing him in jaws of the wolf to see how that goes. It might be better, but I'm still not sure it will beat the advance move on the jacks that allow a big scenario presence to the WGK list. I can say it will be different to say the least.
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