gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548 
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Post by gordo on Feb 26, 2018 14:34:19 GMT
First: I make these assumptions based on where the CiD ended.
Thags2 is what drew me into Legion, and he may be what draws me back. Given that I started thinking about how I would run him. At the moment, everyone is talking about him in Primal Terrors, so I guess the first question is what theme.
Ravens? His feat works well with a hit and run style on his flying beasts, Manifest Destiny does a little to boost their damage anemia, and loves Hellmouths to increase his personal threat. But it's free points for infantry, which he does really nothing to boost save for one unit of high armor, which the best he can do is give it to Raptors. Not going to break any banks there.
Children? Well Manifest Destiny helps fix their damage cancer and his feat does great things for the Nephilim-Bros, as does Dragons Blood. Throw in Typhon to give you raw hitting power, and this could work. So what is missing? Fury management. They gave us a beast theme and took away our ability to run them. Sigh. So you best put everything into an alpha that will break them, because everything is going to frenzy the next turn. What would be required for that? Well damage buffs and threat extension... So they took away Nagas and Seraphs. So close to a shoe in but there are some really strong draw backs here.
Primal Terrors? +2" Deployment helps him really threaten deep, and free Hellmouths are great. Much of the reason Ravens likes him, PT does also. But again we are stuck running infantry. One unit of Chosen loves Dragons Blood, and that's about all you would run. Soooo... You are going to end up playing points down. Probably 10ish. And that's a lot of eggs in one basket
Oracles is where I think he's really going to shine. First, you'll get 14-16 free points. Nice. Thrones and Blightbringer both love Dragons Blood, and Thags loves having their huge bases to hide behind and then launch himself over. Seraphs, Forsaken, and Nagahs. All our key pieces except the Hellmouth.
I think my ideal for him would be:
Blightbringer
Throne
Seraph
Carnivean
Blackfrost
Nagah
Free solos (Sorceress, Succubus, Forsaken?)
I'm not sure if you can get all this in 100 but I THINK you can...
I forget where points landed so I'm not sure what I have left. But this list can make Thags2 have a very strong personal threat with the bonuses available to it. It has two big, hard to remove models to threaten, block, and hold zones. Seraph to boost his threat Flare what he charges to prevent him from having to waste fury on boosts. Same from Blackfrost. Same from Throne. And again from Blightbringer. The Blightbringer def penalty can't be dodged. Flare from the Seraph can hopefully hit with boosts and multiple shots. Then 3+ Ice Cages. Nagah if you need it too. After all this you STILL have the Carnivean too.
Is his feat wasted? Kinda. But if anything they boosted Thags hitting and tanking a lot. So I think it would be a shame to waste it. This list threatens Assassination very hard without sacrificing attrition. And I think that's what it needs to do best.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 21, 2018 22:02:00 GMT
For some factions, many of the casters play very similarly. I look at my Skorne lists and find that my beast lists all tend to look identical. If you do move to another faction, I highly recommend picking up one of the mini factions: Cephalyx, Grymkin, Convergence, etc. I find them far more cohesively designed and capable of dealing with tons of different threats without requiring nearly as many model purchases.
Course you already picked up the Skorne so welcome to the desert.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 21, 2018 16:58:14 GMT
I find it very difficult to make a truly bad X2 list, but here's what I've found:
Archidons under feat turn get absurd work done and their threat range really keeps people honest. Remember that on feat turn they can pretty reliably throw just about anyone. Hyper Aggressive on an Archidon means if you shoot one within 10" and it lives you will immediately be engaged by them. It's very strong.
Any more than 3 Titans and you really need a Bronzeback to manage it all. But boy is he useful for that.
You can usually get by with just one Krea because casting it with Xerxes2 himself covers a massive area. Agonizers are much easier to kill so I use both my other two free slots for them.
Cyclops Shaman is just as good here as he is with everyone else.
1-2 Drakes are enough magical attacks if you are worried about it.
Tiberion with Overtake is very very important for infantry killing, but he's not needed if you have Derples.
8 paingivers are minimum, but 10 is better.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 20, 2018 19:59:09 GMT
I was sort of hoping for something more detailed. Less armor plating, more pistons and tubing, etc. Right now it just looks like a Nomad without a shield. I was hoping for something "more science" or "more steam" or maybe just "more anything". All this is is more "plain".
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 20, 2018 16:49:15 GMT
That might just be the most plane-Jane warjack I have ever seen. Like if I had to give exactly one picture to someone to represent the standard warjack aesthetic on this game, that picture would be it.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 20, 2018 15:09:53 GMT
Thagrosh 2 I originally got shown the game by a Legion main in MKII. Made sense that he would tell me they were the best. I think I kind of fell for the faction initially for the shear weird occurrence where you like what's familiar. Thus, after watching him play and him summarizing the models. I felt okay with buying in. I later found that I like Circle tactics more. So I did buy into that, but my wife took over those models. Then I picked up minions which plays waaaay more like old MKII Legion is the massive number of beast I can put on the field and then +6 their damage. Lastly I've just bought into Protectorate. Reason being PoM was the first enemy I ever played my own Legion models against and to this day I felt I chose wrong. PoM is the aesthetic I like most. Their Casters, Jacks, and infantry all seem so diverse and capable. But still, I will never stop playing Legion because of Thagrosh 2. He was the first caster I went head first into the faction for. He was always bonkers fun and here recently I just completely stripped the old crappy paint job, reassembled him better, modded him slightly, and worked tirelessly on an absolutely wonderfully clean paint job (for my skill level). He is by far the model I am most proud of now. Though I'm still terrified every time I take him out of the bag as the modded sword gave me cancer trying to get drilled and glued. Fingers crossed it's still together... [Edit] Also Kryssa. Absolutely love playing Kryssa lists. I've made tons of them. So much fun and so easily adapted. If I can get some more table time with Bethayne, she might also get a top 3 position in my book. Bethayne is SUPER fun. She is also super handicapped, but if you ignore that aspect and just play for neat Fusion! tricks you will very much enjoy running her. I highly recommended her for causal games. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 19, 2018 20:10:53 GMT
Premier beast faction is definitely Skorne. Circle after that with Call of the Wild and Bones both being great. Probably should count Grymkin too
Really I think every Hordes faction does beasts better except Trolls
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 19, 2018 16:22:04 GMT
Eventually I arrived at a Rasheth list that kills its own dudes with channeling to get soul tokens. He also kind of fixes it's other issues: he helps them hit, he helps them crack arm, and he helps them survive melee attacks. So... What are you bringing the list for then? I have not run my immortals in mk3 at all. I am interested in what they are good at. Well under his feat or Carnivore they will hit very accurately. Under his feat or against a Blood Market target they will hit very strongly. Under his feat and with an Agonizer they will be very resilient to melee attacks (hopefully). With their ability to go Incorporeal they end up with a very strong assassin run. Kreas and Vengeance should help them survive shooting. Rasheth needs infantry that can play forward so he can channel spells, and this has the double syngergy of granting them souls to use. Bonus is that Void Spirits are great channelers as well. It ends up being 30 resilient dudes that can fly through your dudes to get to where you want that hit at MAT 8-11, PS 15-17 with magical weapons that also rewards you for killing off your own dudes. Your reach and magic weapons help you deal with incorporeal. Castigate to help stop enemy channeling (and animi I guess?) Seems legit. But really, Sir Tubsalot makes every army good. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 19, 2018 14:03:11 GMT
So the other day I was talking about Exalted when I realized that they don't require their deaths to result from enemy attacks to still get their souls. Eventually I arrived at a Rasheth list that kills its own dudes with channeling to get soul tokens. He also kind of fixes it's other issues: he helps them hit, he helps them crack arm, and he helps them survive melee attacks. So... War Room Army Skorne - Rasheth Exalted Theme: The Exalted 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Dominar Rasheth - WB: +28 - Aptimus Marketh - PC: 0 - Cyclops Shaman - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Agonizer - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) Ancestral Guardian - PC: 5 Hakaar the Destroyer - PC: 0 Ancestral Guardian - PC: 0 Void Spirit - PC: 4 Void Spirit - PC: 4 Immortals - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Extoller Advocate - PC: 4 Immortals - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Extoller Advocate - PC: 4 Immortals - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Extoller Advocate - PC: 4 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 THEME: The Exalted My concerns with the list are possibly the over lap of soul collecting from all the Soultakers. Due to unfortunate placement, the models I want getting the souls may not be getting them because another Soultaker is even closer. Also, if I use Rasheth here, I can't use him with my Derples  |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 18, 2018 8:11:18 GMT
What first drew me to the army were the aesthetics. What kept me there was the "glass cannon" aspect. You let us get there first, if you pay extra for frills that we ignore, we will punish you for it. But if you can dodge or blunt our charge we will crumble. This is what interested me in Legion when I started in Mk2.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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SR18 CID?
Feb 16, 2018 16:38:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Feb 16, 2018 16:38:31 GMT
Incorporeal models cannot contest but can score, problem solved. I actually really like that. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 15, 2018 17:32:15 GMT
Do the Void Spirits prevent your Immortals from generating soul tokens? One says "as if it were a living model" and the other "stops living models from generating a soul token". Feels like Skornergy
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 15, 2018 16:10:22 GMT
I think in the next steamroller packet, PP should consider making basic painting requirements the default and have no painting requirements be an alternate rule, in order to emphasize the hobby aspect a little more and encourage more fully painted armies on the table. I am a very strong advocate for playing painted and making WM/H community in general focus on the hobby elements of the game. I think we do ourselves a huge disservice as a community/game system by ignoring painting and almost accepting non painted models as a norm. I also think that one of the reasons WM/H is not as popular as it could be down to the lack of hobby focus within the community. However the word you used in your own post is “encourage”. Given all of the above, while I would like to see every competition game played painted, 3 colours minimum, id rather encourage people to do this than have any form of written rule. If this was to appear in the SR packet I think many TO’s and players would ignore it and it would cause bad feelings. So “Yes” to more fully painted armies. But no to making is a compulsory SR requirement . And this is how you get GW games, where the mechanics, balance, and gameplay all play second fiddle to the hobby aspect. If painted armies enhance the game experience by themselves, they should be naturally occurring. Artificially enforcing them just provides another barrier to play too scare away players. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 15, 2018 14:37:07 GMT
This is the list I'm of:
War Room Army
Skorne - warriorsvxerxes
Theme: Masters of War
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Tyrant Xerxis - WB: +28
- Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
- Agonizer - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
- Archidon - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
Tyrant Rhadeim - PC: 9
- Tyrant Rhadeim (Continued)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4
Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4
Praetorian Swordsmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Praetorian Ferox - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
Praetorian Karax - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11
- Praetorian Karax Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Tyrant & Bearer: 0
Legends of Halaak - Valgesh, CIdaar & J'Deth: 8
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Tyrant & Bearer: 0
THEME: Masters of War
I figure the Karax become an incredibly difficult roadblock if I want them to, and reposition makes it really easy for them to get up the board or move back into shield wall. They block LoS to my Swordsmen who also become immune to blast damage thanks to girded. No one gets in each other's way thanks to Tactician. Everyone hits really hard thanks to feat and Stir the Blood. It would deal well with most infantry spam thanks to ignoring tough and RFP. Also note that their RFP triggers on boxed, not destroyed, which will also stop most (all?) corpse and soul collection. Kreas and feat and defenders Ward should make it safe from any non-blessed shooting. Feat and tough still giving me mitigating factors there. I have fun surprising Assassination vectors with my beasts on feat turn, especially with Lurch on the Archidon. Also Kreas hit kinda hard on feat turn. And Xerxes charging through a wall of his own infantry, aiming a smite to knockdown a path to their caster, and then Lightning Striking back to safety behind a wall of soldiers should be hilarious.
Stuff I'm concerned about:
shooting Xerxes off the table. I haven't got lots of medium bases to hide him behind (though I do have SOME) and he needs to be front and center.
High DEF spam. Ferrox get boosted charges, and the Legends have pretty high MAT, CMA from Karax, but... Casters like Jalaam and Fyanna2 could be an issue.
Puncture and similar rules that automatically do damage without attacking. My only safety there is tough rolls?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 14, 2018 21:03:06 GMT
Curious to see if he sees much play. He seems like he would be brutal with Masters of War.
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