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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 28, 2017 2:17:25 GMT
I proposed the idea that the model also counts as a Warrior Unit for the purposes of being targetted for effects. That would at least give it something interesting to do mechanically. It counts now as points for free models, but I really like that idea.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 28, 2017 2:20:04 GMT
I proposed the idea that the model also counts as a Warrior Unit for the purposes of being targetted for effects. That would at least give it something interesting to do mechanically. It counts now as points for free models, but I really like that idea. Well only for Effects, and it counted as points for free models before anyway.
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Post by rubicon on Apr 28, 2017 7:19:54 GMT
My preference would deffo be shot types. One to create rough terrain as is, another causing fire and a third high explosive. Then I'd take it.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 28, 2017 10:03:17 GMT
Yeah, it does everything you would expect a tank to do. Tanks don't get bogged down by infantry. They reliably crush through them even after they are engaged. I think the Meat Thresher has 1-2 abilities I'd love to see on the GC. ...but it can make Trample attacks. And since attack rolls on a trample are done in the back arc that's close to them being boosted. I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever actully looked at the GC in the context of how you want it to work.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 28, 2017 10:48:40 GMT
Tanks don't get bogged down by infantry. They reliably crush through them even after they are engaged. I think the Meat Thresher has 1-2 abilities I'd love to see on the GC. ...but it can make Trample attacks. And since attack rolls on a trample are done in the back arc that's close to them being boosted. HereComesTomorrow, you are incorrect about this. Trample attacks are made in the arc in which the trample starts. See page 49 of the PDF, last paragraph on the bottom right. The rules are really clear on this point. If your attack starts in the back arc, you get the backstrike. If it starts in the front arc, they get the shield bonus and you are denied the backstrike bonus. [ I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever actully looked at the GC in the context of how you want it to work. This is an unnecessarily inflammatory dig, especially since you got the Trample rule wrong. You could have made your point without this comment. Yes, I have plenty of experience playing the GC. (If I'm wrong about how I play the trample rule, please point to the rule page or infernal ruling. Thanks). Finally, in my experience, when an opponent has failed to one round my GC but instead jams it, it's previously not been a viable strategy to trample forward - either no landing zone or risk multiple free strikes. Maybe the higher box count will make risking free strikes viable. Others have suggested different ammo types like High Explosive. That could be good as an alternative.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 28, 2017 11:05:02 GMT
I honestly don't see how people can be less than ecstatic over the Gun Carriage. It has 38 boxes now! and is still arm 20! that is 2 more boxes than Behemoth! plus it has no systems so is fully operational until the very end.
It has a 20" threat on its cannons, that is massive, plus repo 3" so can be 15" away from whatever it just shot. 2 x 4" AOEs of rough terrain can absolutely bone some armies hard.
I also has a boosted knockdown melee attack, perfect for enabling other things to attack high defence models.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Apr 28, 2017 11:27:20 GMT
It has a 20" threat on its cannons, that is massive, plus repo 3" so can be 15" away from whatever it just shot. 2 x 4" AOEs of rough terrain can absolutely bone some armies hard. It's a 23" threat on the cannons 11" trample then 12" range. And yeah, the gun carriage is great! Looking forward to trying it with the extra boxes! Cheers, Dave
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 28, 2017 12:03:10 GMT
...but it can make Trample attacks. And since attack rolls on a trample are done in the back arc that's close to them being boosted. HereComesTomorrow, you are incorrect about this. Trample attacks are made in the arc in which the trample starts. See page 49 of the PDF, last paragraph on the bottom right. The rules are really clear on this point. If your attack starts in the back arc, you get the backstrike. If it starts in the front arc, they get the shield bonus and you are denied the backstrike bonus. [ I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever actully looked at the GC in the context of how you want it to work. This is an unnecessarily inflammatory dig, especially since you got the Trample rule wrong. You could have made your point without this comment. Yes, I have plenty of experience playing the GC. (If I'm wrong about how I play the trample rule, please point to the rule page or infernal ruling. Thanks). Finally, in my experience, when an opponent has failed to one round my GC but instead jams it, it's previously not been a viable strategy to trample forward - either no landing zone or risk multiple free strikes. Maybe the higher box count will make risking free strikes viable. Others have suggested different ammo types like High Explosive. That could be good as an alternative. Sorry, I hadn't realized PP contradicted the inital ruling on tramples. Still, aside from a hit buff everything you want the GC to do, it does. Just not how you want it to do it. Save
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 28, 2017 13:41:31 GMT
I honestly don't see how people can be less than ecstatic over the Gun Carriage. Because of its weak accuracy and being expensive? And not bringing much that the rest of our stuff doesn't bring in some other way? Not saying you shouldn't feel happy, but there are plenty of reasons to find it sub-par or boring. It will be worth its points in raw survivability but that's not very exciting to me, to be honest.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 28, 2017 13:57:45 GMT
I honestly don't see how people can be less than ecstatic over the Gun Carriage. Because of its weak accuracy and being expensive? And not bringing much that the rest of our stuff doesn't bring in some other way? Not saying you shouldn't feel happy, but there are plenty of reasons to find it sub-par or boring. It will be worth its points in raw survivability but that's not very exciting to me, to be honest. There are ways of buffing it's accuracy and damage output (S&P, HoF, FFE), plus I did not even mention that fact that it is a great screen for your warcaster, can't be knocked down, a 2" TK will usually not move it significantly enough to expose your caster drastically.
A model that can Slam and knockdown things, plus shoot all its guns as well, and then reposition, and put out rough terrain, that's does not sound boring to me.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 28, 2017 14:02:20 GMT
For me, with the increased boxes, the GC does do just about everything I want it to do... options.
...non charge hit buff. ...ammo types.
Ammo types would be good. My picks would be high explosive, canister shot and cannonball (like the commodore cannon but less powerful).
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 28, 2017 14:27:52 GMT
There are ways of buffing it's accuracy and damage output (S&P, HoF, FFE), That's not a reasonable argument. At least not on its own. Because anything the game can be buffed: Therefore anything in the game can be good! The question is the buff to result ratio. I think the buff/ result/ Point ratio Just stop listing everything and saying "SEE HOW IMPRESSIVE!!!!!!". You can do that with anything in a linear fashion, even "Laughworthy" units like Kossites. A model is more then just the sum of its parts. Eh? All our Warjacks can Knockdown (And we have a Knockdown cannon thats much cheaper), and it shoots its guns because it lacks any other actual weapons to use when its time comes meaning the result is pretty piddly (For 18 Points), and the rough terrain can actually interfere with your army, outside the turns that you knock targets down you have very weak ways of targeting them with it at all. And AWESOME. You find it INTERESTING. I don't, and I don't consider my disinterest unreasonable. Personally, I find it too big and bulky and I find the idea of it supporting my ranged game by knocking targets down ridiculous because of how bulky it is. More often then not it finds itself in a position where it can't move far away to provide clear shots.
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Post by auraco on Apr 28, 2017 14:35:59 GMT
I'll have to try it, the extra boxes will make it way more survivable on the turn it wants to charge, which always comes up in my experience. I've used it before in list that can help it hit and it rarely disapointed, it was squishy but now with 38 boxes it won't be squishy anymore.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 28, 2017 14:36:47 GMT
You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make it realise good models
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 28, 2017 14:39:40 GMT
Well obviously having ammo types would be better, than not having them. But since CID is not about asking for gifts, but rather finding bugs, I doubt PP will grace us with ammo types. We have several ways to buff shooting anyway.
Personally I would play current carriage in all my WG theme lists at least.
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