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Post by droopingpuppy on May 20, 2017 20:16:53 GMT
Well, many people don't need something to be OP; in fact, they actually need it to be usable.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on May 21, 2017 5:20:59 GMT
Well, many people don't need something to be OP; in fact, they actually need it to be usable. Exactly. But well, this seems to be a concept most players don't get. - Just wrote the following over there... We're at the very same point we've been before: it's always been the shooty BEs which saw table time. Personally I didn't thought every BE would become a shooty powerhouse. I thought the learning of the old designs would be BEs which either excel at shooting or are massive supporters. And if you can't hit anyway it should offer super meaningful ammo types which help anyway. Like shooting clouds or cover or whatever... Instead, some more BEs got better or over the top at shooting - while others won't see play because they are a liability without a chance of making any impact in lots of games. Some will get work done all of the time vs some that are nothing but a gamble in their best usecase.
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Post by droopingpuppy on May 22, 2017 1:39:44 GMT
Yeah. If it also have some viable support role then it would be useful even with such mediocre raw performance, such as deploy cloud effects as you said(it seems that it needs more than that, though). It don't need to be good support anti armor gun platform. It just need to be useful in current meta, and the role itself is not important unless the role itself is obsolete now.
I remember that Vessel of Judgement is employed even in MKII, despite the fact that it is not the days of BEs. That's because it is an anti armor gun platform, but also because it is a decent supporting model as well.
The funny thing is that many of supporter BEs are also has a decent anti armor gun maybe because of their own resource management system, while many of full combat role BEs are not even have one. -_-;
Well, I have a question, what do you think that your Gun Carriage should be?
In fluff, it work as a line breaker, as well as a mobile gun platform that utilize large guns that even the warjacks are not able to use. Its gun is too powerful that even the ground is deformed. But well, does it suits the fluff now?
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Post by Kriegsspiele on May 22, 2017 5:13:07 GMT
I don't know the fluff in detail - just some general hearsay. The stories are too badly written to not read something else instead. But even if it would be great, rules are something entirely different and shouldn't follow the fluff in detail anyway - but make models worth playing.
The look of the model screams gun platform, defense, mobility. And this is something a lot of new(er) players think about when buying models. I don't think the GC looks like a chariot you'd drive into combat on the other hand!?
Anyway, PP said they'd build the new BEs as supporters. Sadly the GC didn't get any additional support. And the craters aren't helpful in most of the games. Some additional ammo types would have made it. Personally I hoped for clouds and some way to lay down cover or concealment for the rest of the army.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 22, 2017 9:44:27 GMT
I don't know the fluff in detail - just some general hearsay. The stories are too badly written to not read something else instead. But even if it would be great, rules are something entirely different and shouldn't follow the fluff in detail anyway - but make models worth playing. The look of the model screams gun platform, defense, mobility. And this is something a lot of new(er) players think about when buying models. I don't think the GC looks like a chariot you'd drive into combat on the other hand!? Anyway, PP said they'd build the new BEs as supporters. Sadly the GC didn't get any additional support. And the craters aren't helpful in most of the games. Some additional ammo types would have made it. Personally I hoped for clouds and some way to lay down cover or concealment for the rest of the army. I'm surprised you haven't learned by now not to listen to anything PP says. Their words and actions are completly divorced from each other. I'm not sure what laying down clouds would have done. Khador isn't short of cloud effects.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on May 22, 2017 12:11:53 GMT
I'm forgiving too easily, that's true. PP is the only company I have to deal with that doesn't keep word like this.
Sure, we have H1, Z1, OW. And we have Kodiaks or Ternions (also I don't see the latter too often) everywhere. So 1. it fits very well. But 2. shooting (or even placing) clouds would definitely be a nice addition in my opinion.
Regardless of the particular new ammo types, they could have added the support Khador doesn't have too much of anyway. Instead we got more of the stuff we already own...
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 22, 2017 12:26:46 GMT
Flares would be perfect ammo type for wg theme. Alas it's not to be.
I wonder what mow engine will be since having 2 big dumb engines that shoot aoes is against PP's precious design space.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on May 22, 2017 12:39:33 GMT
Sure, but Flares would be a tiny little bit too good, wouldn't it? The MoW engine is the last best hope. If it's not worthwhile, too, they won't sell the package too often.
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Post by Cryptix on May 22, 2017 13:36:08 GMT
Sure, but Flares would be a tiny little bit too good, wouldn't it? The MoW engine is the last best hope. If it's not worthwhile, too, they won't sell the package too often. My dream is the MOW engine has the main fun of the Conquest and two POW 11 covering fire side guns.
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Post by skathrex on May 22, 2017 13:42:09 GMT
Seeing on how others react, it will be bought more than pre CID.
Flare is something I thought of too, but thats just a really really f*ing good synergie with WG-Theme. And eliminate the only reason to take the Spriggan at all.
Clouds that you can't place are meh or so it feels like to me and can potentionally create order of activation issues. Not to speak of the Skornergy to hide a Huge Base behind clouds.
I think Khador support will always come down to "killing stuff". Our Units are designed with limited support. And frankly thats something I like about khador. We don't have to start a game with spending x (5-15 points) on support . The only kind I like to see is synergetic support, but the problem is Winter Guard already scales really well with the limited support we have. I honestly can't think of a lot that wouldn't outright be broken.
But arguing Fun Carriage has become a bit futile for me. I like it. I like the role. It didn't really change for me, just got better with more boxes. But other people don't like. Either because they think it too weak or they don't like the Rules/optics design. Just keep in mind Chris Davies played the old version even though he didn't like it^^
Lets just Focus on the awesome that Khador is and how much better our Marauders just became. Anyone an idea where I can get more? only have 3!
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