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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 6, 2020 10:34:55 GMT
Well, the original metal starter kits were $50, and had much less in them. The old unit prices were in the $50-$60 range, but the latest Illuminate units are in the $80 range. By comparison, $70 would be about right for a metal starter kit with as much else they are putting in. These starters are I believe 5 infantry models and a big warjack, along with gaming aids. That's... somewhat similar to the contents of a Monsterpocalypse starter, which has 5 units and a big monster. The Monpoc starters are $50 from the PP store (which actually means you can get them for cheaper; I paid $40 on the PP store itself). It's not exactly a straight comparison; the Neomech infantry models are larger and the warjacks has a bunch of extra parts, plus I think there's more gaming aids with tokens and cards and stuff. But the thing is that it instinctively feels similar, so you instinctively expect the price point to be closer. That's not an objective statement of fact of course, I was commenting on my initial impressions. Doesn't make it easier justifying the cost to the significant, though, when you can use the funds on an already established game. Yeah, it's getting harder to justify buying into a new game these days; there's some many out there that look shiny and cool that I've picked up quite a number of rulebooks, starter kits, etc. Perhaps. Infinity's basic starters are about $50, and include about 5-6 models, but none are the size of a Jack. There are larger super-starters which are double boxes, too, which are in the $100 range. That line is all metal all the time, and the detail is more intricate than anything we've seen in NeoMech. Price may not be a concern for you, but it is for Soul Samurai and I (at least till I get another job, at any rate). The other day I went through all of my many boxes of un-assembled models (lots of 40K, Knight Models' Marvel stuff, Warmachine models for factions that I don't play but that I picked up because of how cool the model was, etc) and tried to consolidate them into a smaller number of boxes so that I wouldn't feel so guilty. It's got me thinking I need to try to buy less hobby stuff.
Still, I'm pretty sure I'll pick up the minimum pledge; even if I don't end up getting into the game I reckon I can use the models in other games (I'm currently getting into Zone Raiders, which is a model-agnostic sci-fi deal). Not interested in the larger pledges because you're mostly just getting duplicate models, though I might go for some add-ons. I'll probably sit down in the next few days and try to figure it out. Unfortunately I haven't had time to even finish watching the demo game yet! Also I'm having trouble deciding on a faction; each one has a couple of models I like the look of and a couple I'm not sold on.
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Post by falkman on Mar 6, 2020 11:22:40 GMT
It doesn't help that they are going largely to metal (or metal-like) on this when even Wyrd is going with a good plastic run. It feels like a step backwards to me, but it takes a lot of investment to make good plastic mold runs. GW only managed to go so much plastic because they've invested in the development for over a decade now. As for the knock-off Infinity stuff, Infinity's style is almost realistic, and far away from the heroic styles of WMH or Warhammer. It looks amazing, but also quite intimidating to people like me whose thumb has more volume than the average model. NeoWC at least looks like they will be more manageable to build and paint than Infinity, or even a large number of WMH models, because it is in that middle road of realistic and heroic, at least for now. I think they are bigger than both lines, too. The materials are almost certainly primarily resin with metal bits and bobs where necessary, just like the last 2 years of MonPoc and WM releases. The models are currently all metal, as stated here: home.privateerpress.com/2020/02/20/warcaster-neo-mechanika-answers-to-your-burning-questions/ ” Right now, most of the models we’ve previewed so far will be made in metal, even the warjacks.Also shown here:
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Post by michael on Mar 6, 2020 13:37:08 GMT
Interesting. I missed that, obviously!
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Post by michael on Mar 6, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
What is the source for that picture? It is definitely not on the page you linked.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 6, 2020 16:13:12 GMT
I was a bit shocked at the 70$. But actually Infinity is simply the same price. Freebooters Fate is the same price. Solos from PP right now have the same price range (15$). You pay about 10-15$ for a Mini these days. So it feels expensive, but it is not more expensive than other stuff is. Games workshop sells Heros much more expensive and units a bit cheaper (but not as cheap as you would think). I will actually back it for real (just the head to head option). I think it is also intersting that all the minis are made in US and not in China anymore. Since all rules are free for download: home.privateerpress.com/warcaster/gameplay/?fbclid=IwAR0rQsyxEdP5aih-7Oxz18ICqeOYHIF3mqbGmBh1W5MMAGvLvhR51KaFNHMI will actually test the game tonight.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Mar 7, 2020 19:47:12 GMT
I think the eternus continuum is going to be popular, though I just want to see squid people.
Like their heads are in a helmet full of water
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 8, 2020 21:46:00 GMT
This is a statement of Matt Wilson regarding the pricing (from Kickstarter comments) We manufacture in two different materials: metal and resin.
For metal models, the material IS the largest expense in manufacturing the models. When we starting making metal miniatures back in 2003, metal was around $3.25 per pound. Within 8-10 years later (memory is a bit foggy) it was up over $13 per pound. Today it fluctuates in the high $12 to low $13 per pound. The jump back then was because of the two major mining facilities for tin, shut down, so the remaining supplier jacked the price way up, but it's been fairly consistent since then.
We continue to manufacture in metal because mold costs are low and we have equipment that makes mass production fairly fast for metal parts. It also holds detail very well and doesn't break easy. So, it's good for smaller, lighter parts. But the same, chunky, metal warjacks that we were able to make back in 2003 for $25 or $30 would be triple in price today.
Resin, on the other hand is inexpensive by comparison. Ounce for ounce, it's far cheaper, but there is more waste in resin production so the true difference in materials cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-50% the price of metal. This makes resin great for producing the big, chunky models that have a lot of mass and would otherwise be very expensive materials-wise. However, resin is incredibly slow to produce and requires a great deal of labor by very skilled people. Resin burns molds out much faster than metal, so we're constantly making new molds to preserve the integrity of the models. And resin also has a long cure time and a complicated process that requires both pressure and vacuum treatments to make sure the bubbles get pushed out of the material. (Metal cools within seconds of coming out of the casting machine.)
So, depending on the part, we pick the material that is going to produce the best quality for the size of the piece and keep the price as low as we can for our customers.
You can check prices in our online store and you'll see that the Warcaster models are comparatively priced, inline with how we price things for retail sale. But bear in mind, when you buy from retail, we only received 40% of what the MSRP was on the product because distributors and retailers also have to have a margin to sustain their businesses, so if you're getting something for lower than MSRP, that discount was applied by the reseller you purchase from, not us.
The way we price things, about half of the revenue we take in from retail sales covers the materials cost of production (which also includes packaging, components, etc.) The other half is what we use to pay our staff's salaries and keep the lights on.
Through this kickstarter, after the deductions from Kickstarter and credit card fees, shipping costs, the increased expense to the products by incorporating stretch goals that also cost money and taxes we absorb (you don't pay tax on the Kickstarter pledge) we end up in about the same place, with about 35-40% of what you see up in the funding ticker to cover our production expenses and pay our staff's salaries (if we're lucky and did our math correctly!).
The Command Group Starter sets are actually artificially price lower. Selling the models in the starter a la carte, they'd total up to $85. We know that is gong to be too high of a price for a starter product, so we take the lower margin in order to make the product as accessible as it can be. Our margin is further reduced by all the components that go into the box: 11 dice, a rulebook, tokens and card — all of that is sourced externally and the costs add up. The Warcaster starters have more in them than we've ever put in a starter product, but we felt this was the best possible starting point experience for the game, so we kept the price as low as we could while still making sure we can operate as a company.
Our prices are justified by the expense required to maintain a company and produce these products to the quality level that consumers expect and deserve. But you're also getting more value for your pledge through Kickstarter because of the stretch goals, which all have an associated cost for us, whether it's production or the time our staff has to spend making something. You're also not paying tax here, which in many places is as high as ten percent.
None of this is necessarily going to change one's mind about whether or not the product is worth the expense, but I hope it provides some insight into our business and process so you can see why things are prices as they are.
- Matt Wilson
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 8, 2020 22:38:07 GMT
Interesting.
You gotta at least appreciate the transparency... but why not plastic?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 8, 2020 23:11:55 GMT
Interesting. You gotta at least appreciate the transparency... but why not plastic? Been explained a couple times in thread. Metal molds are made of gummy (forgot what it's called) - cheap mold, expensive material. Faster to produce than resin, clst efficient for low scale production. Look at smaller companies as reference. Resin - cast in sillicone, primary cost manpower. Plastic - metal molds, exceedingly expensive. Only worth it for mainline products, insanely risky on new venture. Made in china to save costs, requires specialization PP staff lacks, and PP wants to produce in-house. Christ, I'm starting to talk like Abathur.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 8, 2020 23:44:39 GMT
Interesting. You gotta at least appreciate the transparency... but why not plastic? Enjoy this abominable chart I created on the subject. I think I burned my last few IQ points on this. I might very well be entering the negatives at this point.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 9, 2020 8:22:40 GMT
So the 300K "variant solo" stretch goal has been reached. I'm not exactly sure if the solo replaces the original or is provided alongside it.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 9, 2020 11:07:03 GMT
To me it reads as add on but I am uncertain: How many sets of stretch goals are included in the retailer reward tiers? The Retailer Sampler Package will receive all Micro and Digital Stretch Goal Rewards.
The Retailer Starter Package will receive all Micro and Digital Stretch Goal Rewards as well as one set of all Universal and Faction Stretch Goals unlocked during this campaign, for each of the three factions. For instance, when we unlock the $300k Faction Stretch Goal, that will add one variant Marcher Worlds Hunter, one variant Iron Star Alliance Paladin Commander, and one variant Immortal Weaver to the rewards total for the pledging retailer.
Note: it is one Faction Stretch Goal reward per faction, not per starter. The reason for this is that after extending our standard retailer discount on the product, there is not margin to cover stretch goal rewards for every starter. However, all of the Faction Stretch Goal rewards will be available to Add-On in our pledge manager, and as well, retailers will be able to receive the retailer discount on any case quantities (6 units per) of an item ordered in the pledge manager. [\spoiler]
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 9, 2020 11:07:15 GMT
Double Post. So if anybody finds some clear answer in their comments please post. It is actually very important to know if the variant is an extra!
This was fast: Ivan ZovkoSuperbacker about 4 hours ago Sorry if this has already been asked. I backed at the head to head level. With the alternate sculpts unlocked, does that mean I will get two solo miniatures with my factions? One standard sculpt and one alternate sculpt?
user avatar Privateer PressCreator about 4 hours ago If you backed for the Head to Head reward, you'll receive one variant model for each of the factions you select in the pledge manager in addition to all of the models listed in the contents of the Command Group Starter set.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 9, 2020 12:21:48 GMT
Double Post. So if anybody finds some clear answer in their comments please post. It is actually very important to know if the variant is an extra! This was fast: Ivan ZovkoSuperbacker about 4 hours ago Sorry if this has already been asked. I backed at the head to head level. With the alternate sculpts unlocked, does that mean I will get two solo miniatures with my factions? One standard sculpt and one alternate sculpt? user avatar Privateer PressCreator about 4 hours ago If you backed for the Head to Head reward, you'll receive one variant model for each of the factions you select in the pledge manager in addition to all of the models listed in the contents of the Command Group Starter set. That does seem to suggest it's extra rather than a replacement, which is supported by other replies from PP. I was only looking at the comments on the project update (not the main comments page for the project), where PP did post a reply to the question but it wasn't clear which comment it was a reply to, thus making the answer ambiguous.
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Post by michael on Mar 9, 2020 14:12:11 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts!
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