cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 5, 2020 11:13:34 GMT
Kickstart on every wave is fine for PP getting the money in and keeping up the production.
What worries me is how we will be getting new players into the game. Lots of flagstore has no or little PP product. Kickstart on every wave will make it even harder to get the flagstore behind it.
Without pressgangers and little flagstore support, and a pretty hefty price, i dont see the game hitting enough players outside some pocket communities.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 5, 2020 11:41:15 GMT
As for the "KS each wave of the game" that seems to be going on. Is this any different to Fantasy Flight or Asmode or Steamforged and almost every boardgame etc that they have produced in recent times? Darks Souls, Zombicide, many of the Star Wars games etc etc. It seems that the only company not using kickstarter in some form is GW (currently) As much as a HATE it, it seems to be the direction that every company is going in. It reduces risk and helps to maximise profits. Can you blame PP for doing what everyone else is doing? With the KS funded in under 30 mins, it proves that there is an appetite and market for PP As a WM/H player, if it keep the money flowing into the company, im happy tbh. NeoMec might bring new players to PP games so hopefully it will help drime a slightly more casual friendly attitude in WM/H players. as the others have said, the problem is the price. KS can be a sort of speculative investment, you're investing your money in the company's production, taking the risk that they fail, and in exchange if they succeed you get the miniatures cheaper than a customer who didn't invest in the company. PP are making everything in house, and the molds are probably already finished, so this is more like pre-ordering directly from them than something like Bones #X etc. I guess they want to save themselves the cost of producing minis on retail scale and finding themselves selling mystery boxes again in 2-3 years, so first they gauge interest through the KS. AFAIK at least CMON have the decency to offer a large discount on their KS stuff. 70$ for 12 pre-order models is not exactly a steal. the WMH two player battleboxes were made of shite PVC, but you got 28 models for 90$ MSRP. I'm smelling dead on arrival, but maybe they'll pull through with this like they did with MonPoc. MonPoc has this weird niche where everything looks super generic, but they're really leaning into it, so people are attracted by how familiar it is ("I've always wanted to see Kong and a Gundam fight the martians!"), but what little's been released for WCNM just looks like knock-off infinity stuff. then again, I thought the same thing about Grymkin on release, and now I really like them, so we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by falkman on Mar 5, 2020 15:55:39 GMT
70$ for 12 pre-order models is not exactly a steal. 70$ for 12 models would be okay I think. But it’s 70$ for six models.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 5, 2020 16:04:07 GMT
It doesn't help that they are going largely to metal (or metal-like) on this when even Wyrd is going with a good plastic run. It feels like a step backwards to me, but it takes a lot of investment to make good plastic mold runs. GW only managed to go so much plastic because they've invested in the development for over a decade now.
As for the knock-off Infinity stuff, Infinity's style is almost realistic, and far away from the heroic styles of WMH or Warhammer. It looks amazing, but also quite intimidating to people like me whose thumb has more volume than the average model. NeoWC at least looks like they will be more manageable to build and paint than Infinity, or even a large number of WMH models, because it is in that middle road of realistic and heroic, at least for now. I think they are bigger than both lines, too.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 5, 2020 16:06:50 GMT
70$ for 12 pre-order models is not exactly a steal. 70$ for 12 models would be okay I think. But it’s 70$ for six models. you're joking. it's 70 quid for only one player?
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Post by falkman on Mar 5, 2020 16:12:46 GMT
70$ for 12 models would be okay I think. But it’s 70$ for six models. you're joking. it's 70 quid for only one player? Yeah, one Command group starter set (more or less a battlebox) is 70$. It gives you one warjack, one 3-man unit, two solos, and dice, rules, tokens etc. Enough for ONE player to start at the absolute minimum level of the game as shown in last week’s video where they faced off with one starter box each.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 17:07:44 GMT
It doesn't help that they are going largely to metal (or metal-like) on this when even Wyrd is going with a good plastic run. It feels like a step backwards to me, but it takes a lot of investment to make good plastic mold runs. GW only managed to go so much plastic because they've invested in the development for over a decade now. As for the knock-off Infinity stuff, Infinity's style is almost realistic, and far away from the heroic styles of WMH or Warhammer. It looks amazing, but also quite intimidating to people like me whose thumb has more volume than the average model. NeoWC at least looks like they will be more manageable to build and paint than Infinity, or even a large number of WMH models, because it is in that middle road of realistic and heroic, at least for now. I think they are bigger than both lines, too. The materials are almost certainly primarily resin with metal bits and bobs where necessary, just like the last 2 years of MonPoc and WM releases.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 17:15:05 GMT
To add, re: kickstarter route:
Kickstarter backers get their models first with everything being a standard retailer release afterward. This is not a Kickstarter-only game.
Re: cost The $70-per-starter box cost is 100% comparable to Kill Team’s $160-for-two-starters cost. There’s nothing really out of line with the norm here.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 5, 2020 17:29:00 GMT
The materials are almost certainly primarily resin with metal bits and bobs where necessary, just like the last 2 years of MonPoc and WM releases. Maybe, but in terms of mold development there is not nearly as much difference between resin and metal as there is between plastic and metal. As justifiably maligned as GW's finecast is, the reason it was used was because they could use their old metal molds with that material without having to make a major investment for a low return model line. Plastic is great if you plan on making a whole lot of sprues with it, but not so good for short run operations.
Privateer Press hasn't developed an in-house plastic mold line, which is one reason why NeoMech won't be going that route in the forseeable future. They might have invested in to such a line by the time a 5th or 6th faction are announced, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 5, 2020 17:51:00 GMT
Hmm, this feels a bit pricey to me even by normal PP standards. Considering it's a starter product, you would expect it to be a bit more affordable. And Kickstarter projects tend to offer rewards for less than the planned retail price, so while it may not be fair, there is an expectation for even lower prices. To be fair there's a bunch of gaming accessories included of course, still it kind of feels to me like an error of judgement on PP's part not to have tried to price it lower. But they're well over their funding goal so maybe not? I'm pretty sure I'll go in, but I might limit myself to a basic pledge rather than one of the more "deluxe" ones.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 5, 2020 18:22:30 GMT
Ironically I think the third faction is the most interesting so far. They seem to be a blend of Illuminated and Cryx, which is pretty unusual. They remind me too much of those red dudes from infinity though.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Mar 5, 2020 19:14:03 GMT
Well at least those pics look good. Too bad I have no interest in the continuum fluff. Or any of the other factions tbh.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 5, 2020 19:54:08 GMT
Hmm, this feels a bit pricey to me even by normal PP standards. Considering it's a starter product, you would expect it to be a bit more affordable. And Kickstarter projects tend to offer rewards for less than the planned retail price, so while it may not be fair, there is an expectation for even lower prices. To be fair there's a bunch of gaming accessories included of course, still it kind of feels to me like an error of judgement on PP's part not to have tried to price it lower. But they're well over their funding goal so maybe not? I'm pretty sure I'll go in, but I might limit myself to a basic pledge rather than one of the more "deluxe" ones. Well, the original metal starter kits were $50, and had much less in them. The old unit prices were in the $50-$60 range, but the latest Illuminate units are in the $80 range. By comparison, $70 would be about right for a metal starter kit with as much else they are putting in.
Doesn't make it easier justifying the cost to the significant, though, when you can use the funds on an already established game. Some have compared it to Kill Team pricing, but with Kill Team boxes, you can use those in full-size 40K. NeoMech does not have that switching capacity as yet, and I believe these models won't quite fit in to the WMH model line as easily as Hordes did.
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Post by michael on Mar 6, 2020 0:18:24 GMT
The Kill Team models work in 40K, sure, as long as you buy fifty times more models to go along with them. I’m not worried about price, and apparently a couple thousand other people aren’t bothered either. It costs what it costs, and miniature wargaming has always been an expensive hobby. “Plastic crack” and all that, you know?
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 6, 2020 4:15:31 GMT
Perhaps.
Infinity's basic starters are about $50, and include about 5-6 models, but none are the size of a Jack. There are larger super-starters which are double boxes, too, which are in the $100 range. That line is all metal all the time, and the detail is more intricate than anything we've seen in NeoMech.
Price may not be a concern for you, but it is for Soul Samurai and I (at least till I get another job, at any rate).
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