snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 9, 2020 14:16:03 GMT
I went to my local game store just now and they are pretty excited about the retailer sampler. Win win situation
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 9, 2020 15:48:08 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts! That would be nice, but if we don't unlock the next stretch goal, look on the bright side: less parts to have to magnetise! m.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M
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Post by michael on Mar 9, 2020 15:58:37 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts! That would be nice, but if we don't unlock the next stretch goal, look on the bright side: less parts to have to magnetise! m.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8MBut I want to magnetize parts! I’m the nutjob who magnetized 11 Juggernaut heavy kits, remember? (IN RETROSPECT THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TOO MANY.)
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 10, 2020 6:58:17 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts!
A wargame. Similar price (150$ for 2 players) but not 12, rather over 100 miniatures (hard to count with all the miniature stretch goals... )
Wonder why this one is so successful that I see it played everywhere... Must be the IP, surely.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 10, 2020 8:52:43 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts!
A wargame. Similar price (150$ for 2 players) but not 12, rather over 100 miniatures (hard to count with all the miniature stretch goals... )
Wonder why this one is so successful that I see it played everywhere... Must be the IP, surely.
an established IP, and produced by an established company. do keep in mind that the minis are pre-assembled PVC (as far a I'm aware), compared to warcaster's multi part (but monopose :/) models, that brings a host of problems in itself. if you compare the price tag to their previous KS project, Widower's Wood (which is also pre-assembled PVC) the basic package was 100$ for 40 minis (+15 stretch goal minis), so again PP comes up short. that's a more fair comparison, I'd say. I wonder what CMON's secret is? PP also used to make a lot of their product in china, maybe CMON found a sweatshop that's even sweatier than those PP employed? maybe they operate at a minuscule profit margin per product/person and count on the resulting appeal to create a huge audience?
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Post by michael on Mar 10, 2020 17:06:16 GMT
C’mon people! Throw more money at the KS! I want more warjack parts!
A wargame. Similar price (150$ for 2 players) but not 12, rather over 100 miniatures (hard to count with all the miniature stretch goals... )
Wonder why this one is so successful that I see it played everywhere... Must be the IP, surely.
Translate-O-Tron 4000 enabled. Translating... “Let’s snarkily compare, and present as a fair and balanced comparison, a 2-year-old game based on an IP that has unparalleled mass-market penetration, orders of magnitude greater than even 40K, in addition to near-complete nerd-market penetration, and uses super-cheap non-hobby-quality PVC miniatures, with a brand-new game based on a brand-new IP, uses hobby-quality miniatures, and which hasn’t even released yet, because that will make my position appear superior, especially when I claim to see it played ‘everywhere’, knowing full well that such a claim is an appeal to authority and unverifiable at best. I will use this argument to...uh... accomplish something? Am I just trying to poop on people’s enthusiasm for this new game? Am I threatened by the existence of Warcaster somehow, such that I need to point out any perceived flaws, no matter how tenuous they might be? Frankly my position and argument are unclear, but obviously Warcaster is dumb and not worth anyone’s time, QED.”
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Mar 10, 2020 18:38:03 GMT
Ever heard of the 'enter' key?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 10, 2020 19:00:00 GMT
Translate-O-Tron 4000 enabled. Translating... “Let’s snarkily compare, and present as a fair and balanced comparison, a 2-year-old game based on an IP that has unparalleled mass-market penetration, orders of magnitude greater than even 40K, in addition to near-complete nerd-market penetration, and uses super-cheap non-hobby-quality PVC miniatures, with a brand-new game based on a brand-new IP, uses hobby-quality miniatures, and which hasn’t even released yet, because that will make my position appear superior, especially when I claim to see it played ‘everywhere’, knowing full well that such a claim is an appeal to authority and unverifiable at best. I will use this argument to...uh... accomplish something? Am I just trying to poop on people’s enthusiasm for this new game? Am I threatened by the existence of Warcaster somehow, such that I need to point out any perceived flaws, no matter how tenuous they might be? Frankly my position and argument are unclear, but obviously Warcaster is dumb and not worth anyone’s time, QED.” Chill dude. I agree that the comparison is not fair in some ways, but that's no reason to get hostile. Even if you think his argument is genuinely in bad faith (which I don't believe is the case and I don't think is fair to assume), then there's still better ways to handle it. Cyel, you do raise some fair points. Of course there's very valid reasons to choose NeoMech over ASOIF, and very valid reasons for it to cost more on a per-model basis, just as there are valid reasons to choose ASOIF over NeoMech, cost clearly being one of them. Personally I have no interest in the rather generic models of ASOIF, and I'm personally turned off the franchise as a whole. Also I am very interested in the actual game of NeoMech. I do wish it was a little cheaper, but I don't claim that it SHOULD be.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 11, 2020 7:26:29 GMT
So, with customizable loadouts, people have obviously been talking about magnetizing the weapons. How viable do you think that will be, knowing the parts are all metal? In my experience, depending on the specific piece, magnetizing metal can be difficult because of the added weight compared to plastic.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 11, 2020 8:27:13 GMT
So, with customizable loadouts, people have obviously been talking about magnetizing the weapons. How viable do you think that will be, knowing the parts are all metal? In my experience, depending on the specific piece, magnetizing metal can be difficult because of the added weight compared to plastic. That's a good point. A combination of magnets and pins might be necessary, at least for some of the larger stuff? The smaller arm weapons at least look simple enough. It's possible that PP might have hollowed out some of the larger pieces to keep the weight (and material costs) down, which would be helpful. It can also be an option to take off some weight manually by drilling out larger gun barrels and that sort of thing, although hopefully it won't be necessary.
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Post by michael on Mar 11, 2020 12:01:45 GMT
So, with customizable loadouts, people have obviously been talking about magnetizing the weapons. How viable do you think that will be, knowing the parts are all metal? In my experience, depending on the specific piece, magnetizing metal can be difficult because of the added weight compared to plastic. Last Friday’s hobby hangout video showed this very thing in action! LINK! m.youtube.com/watch?v=N07vQaABUUM
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 11, 2020 12:12:11 GMT
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 12, 2020 7:15:40 GMT
Well, even that big gun seemed to be quite comfortably attached with just that one magnet, so I that's good. Should be good enough for gameplay anyway; it might be a good idea to remove the magnetised parts for transport (depending on how bumpy your commute to your local gaming establishment is...)?
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 12, 2020 8:00:46 GMT
A wargame. Similar price (150$ for 2 players) but not 12, rather over 100 miniatures (hard to count with all the miniature stretch goals... )
Wonder why this one is so successful that I see it played everywhere... Must be the IP, surely.
Translate-O-Tron 4000 enabled. Translating... “Let’s snarkily compare, ...
Agreed, I am angry and resentful, but for all the different reasons that you attribute to me (because you know me so well, ofc).
I would love PP games to succeed. I run local torunaments, I organise campaigns and I teach new players. I like WM&H and I am sure that I would like W:N.
But I really wish PP would stop creating so many barriers of entry (and with WM&H of keeping up) that the games I like, I'd like to play and I have full shelves of models for ... are games with a dwindling playerbase, games which were totally abandoned by my close friends who used to play, games I can hardly find players for (in a 2 million European capital city)
I wish KS started by PP caused people to react in a "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" way and not with "meh", "pretty expensive for what it has", "nothing new/special really", "why would I ever..?". There are plenty of KSs for games with miniatures that make people go "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" Warcaster isn't one of them unless you're a hardcore PP fan. A gamer from outside of WM&H community would probably see absolutely no reason at all to support this one, even if the same person would happily throw money at yet another CMON or Awaken Realms product. For them it is just another niche attempt aimed at no one really.
About a month ago I introduced another new player to WM&H (a student from the high school I teach at) and it's the first time I actually regret making him spend money on a game he will probably find no opponnets for. We played a couple of times. He came to a wargaming club where WM&H is played (only one in a 2-mln city) to find no WM&H players two weeks in a row. This Saturday we have a regular, every-month tournament with him as an only player in the newbie part of the event(30pts). And only 3 players for veteran one (75pts) I wonder when he will ask my why I recommended to him an expensive game he can play with no one instead of a cheaper, popular one...
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 13, 2020 7:41:40 GMT
Cyel, that sounds very frustrating. I will say that I don't think PP are intentionally creating barriers to entry; the wargaming market is just very competitive these days and Warmahordes' strengths (and by extension PP's strengths) are not ones that are necessarily immediately obvious, especially not to people who are new to wargaming - my impression is that most Warmahordes players played other games first. I think PP is trying to be more accessible, with games like Riot Quest and now NeoMech, but it's not easy to come up with something new and very different from what they know, and have it be a winner. Also they seem to want to keep providing value to their existing userbase, which might perhaps be limiting them somewhat creatively, but is admirable as far as loyalty to the customer goes.
Anyway, games cost money. Some games have cheaper models but require more, some games have a lower model count but individual models are poorer value. Personally I would prefer a low model count game with more expensive models these days as I am a very slow painter and much prefer a small number of unique, well painted models than a horde of mostly identical three-colour grunts. Some people like to have large armies marching across the table. That's fine; different games target different areas of the market. ASOIF's "large numbers of cheap models" approach is not inherently better than something like Infinity or NeoMech's "small number of pricier models", it's just more attractive to different types of users.
About the new player you introduced, I understand the feeling of guilt you describe. I've introduced a couple of players to the game and often wondered if that was a mistake, if they would have been better off without me dragging them in. For what it's worth they never complained to me, and I personally never resented the fellow who introduced me to Warmachine despite how much it has cost me and how hard I find it to get games in. So maybe they don't blame you, and maybe they don't regret it? If you think it's not working for them, you could always offer to buy their army if it looks like they're giving up, but in the meantime maybe it's best to not assume too much about what they're feeling if they haven't complained.
Anyway, perhaps we should try not to derail the thread too much or put too much of a damper on the spirits of the people who ARE excited about NeoMech. Back on topic, a new solo has been unlocked. He is an add-on, not a freebie though. I think he can be played in any faction? Is that right?
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