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Post by trout on May 29, 2020 4:14:56 GMT
Champions obviously jump to mind as do Tuffalo. At least they are faster and would like the feat as hitting power goes way down when not charging.
Suprise Bears would be great for the feat and self-deliverability but I don’t think they’ll be in theme.
The thing is: Trolls already have good infantry casters and I can’t see wanting to field this version of Azazello over Grim1, Madrak1 Kolgrima or even Grissel2?
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Post by Azahul on May 29, 2020 4:23:26 GMT
We're assuming not every Troll Warlock is in the theme, and the only confirmed one is Gunnbjorn, so competition may not be the issue. Long Riders is a point, I would love to have some tanky warrior models with actual threat range, though like Champions I don't see them being super likely in the Dhunian theme. With no speed boosts of his own Azazello seems ridiculously vulnerable to any kind of "shave off the front line" sort of tactics, so I do hope I'm wrong on that front.
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Post by Azahul on May 31, 2020 13:03:52 GMT
So I got in my first game with Azazello, playing into Makeda3. He seems ok. Midas/Helga1 sort of vibes, basically. Perfectly playable, but nothing special. He's extremely like those two in that he has very poor control of the tempo of the game. I was lucky I think in that I was playing into someone who mostly threatened ~11" across most of the list, so the fact that my own threat ranges basically capped out at 10" didn't become too much of an issue. I was less lucky in that I was up against a Def skew beast brick that is largely immune to knockdown, which he doesn't have an answer to, though I could kind of muddle along thanks to my list being almost universally Mat 8 or higher.
His own activations are a snorefest though. I didn't even have a situation come up where I wanted to hot swap Storm Rager, so my experience of him as a Warlock was that I cast Storm Rager turn one and at some point I Feated. Wind Rush was cast every turn because I had to get rid of the Fury somehow, but all I used it for was to hover about on the spot.
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Post by gobber on Jun 26, 2020 18:48:37 GMT
In other news azazello got beacon on his gun
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Jun 27, 2020 0:26:23 GMT
And went up to Range 12, which is important for applying Beacon.
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Post by Azahul on Jun 27, 2020 11:18:53 GMT
I... urgh. It's not nothing, but of all the changes he could have received, that's one that manages to actually make his kit even more confused. He was already a bit bizarre, in that he has a Feat that works well by getting the alpha on the opponent and blunting the counter-punch yet has no fast units or way of getting the alpha in the first place. Now he can maybe (even with Beacon I don't think he typically threats far enough to reliably get the jump on something) alpha a single model, but it costs him the ability to actually get work done personally on his Feat turn in spite of him being basically the single best model for his Feat in Minions.
It's not like it's a debuff or anything of course. I think the best use for it that I can think of is to use it to try and get an alpha with a Warbeast or two to then encourage the opponent to commit, bringing them closer enough to counter-punch on Feat turn. Hopefully then for the Feat turn you don't actually need the Beacon to get anywhere. And he won't always need to commit on Feat turn, it's just that he can do so relatively safely and can hit pretty hard when he does.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jun 27, 2020 18:36:47 GMT
After reading what beacon does I immediately thought about him, Rorsh, couple of Slaughterhousers and some Commandos in Thornfall Alliance. It´s nothing I would start buying right now but I own all the named models and really like them.
Azazello and Rorsh are able to harm key models to trigger the Slaughterhouser´s finisher. With beacon the Slaughterhousers threat 12" which is not too shabby and strike with effective MAT 9 (rerollable if henchmen) P+S 12 + 4d6 if Azazello harmed the target. Under feat it´s effective P+S 15 + 4d6 which means that a 6 men unit deals 60 damage to an ARM 19 target.
Beacon might also be also interesting for Farrow Commandos because they now threat 13.5" from the table edge. Because Azazellos feat is an aura, not a pulse, it might be possible to charge with them right into Azazellos ctrl for some surprising melee action (effective P+S 15 + 3d6 if they charge under feat).
This is not the new star on the horizon I know, but enough to bring him on the table.
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Post by Dirhavel on Jun 28, 2020 10:49:50 GMT
I think a lot of the feedback pointed out how boring he was to play. And this is the fix. At least now you have more options turn by turn.
Beacon is great, but in a world of 4295692 shield guards per list, it's not likely to be super impactful very often. Still it's a great effect when it does work.
Azazello still feels like a caster designed for infantry that just doesn't exist in Minions. Maybe one of the new units in Squeal Company will be tailor-made for his kit?
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Post by Azahul on Jun 28, 2020 12:02:52 GMT
I 100% agree that the "is boring and static to play" aspect is why he picked up Beacon. I even believe that that solution came from the community. I desperately wish he'd grabbed Dual Attack in the process though. Having to make that decision on Feat turn is truly rough.
I've played two games with Azazello with this addition and haven't used Beacon yet, but part of that is basically that my opponents were either forced into melee range by the scenario or just fed me their list. Not looking forward to having to make that choice.
I'm truly skeptical about Squeal Company working well for him. Nothing we've really heard about it makes me think that Champions, Fenns, or Long Riders will be in the theme. Those are the only existing Troll units that feel like they click well with Azazello's kit, so it would have to be a brand new release. And that new release would need to be good enough to pass up access to Void and Primal Archons. It might do so, a Krielstone would go a long way with Azazello's basic brick/stat skew play style, but there's still a lot of ground to make up there. It's possible, but I can't say I'm expecting it from something pitched as primarily a gun theme.
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Post by Dirhavel on Jun 28, 2020 13:50:40 GMT
I'm truly skeptical about Squeal Company working well for him. Nothing we've really heard about it makes me think that Champions, Fenns, or Long Riders will be in the theme. Those are the only existing Troll units that feel like they click well with Azazello's kit, so it would have to be a brand new release. And that new release would need to be good enough to pass up access to Void and Primal Archons. It might do so, a Krielstone would go a long way with Azazello's basic brick/stat skew play style, but there's still a lot of ground to make up there. It's possible, but I can't say I'm expecting it from something pitched as primarily a gun theme. I'm also a bit skeptical about SC, but I'll give PP the benefit of the doubt until we actually see what's going on there. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those units you mentionned made it in. The "gun theme" part may refer more to the theme benefits, but either way it doesn't mean units without guns won't be included. As far as I know, Dhunia is worshipped by most trolls, pygs and farrow, regardless of their "jobs". In the meantime, Azazello is at least decent in WWFF, so he's not a total lost cause.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jun 28, 2020 19:07:43 GMT
I mean they mentioned models withe "Dhunian" tag will go in.
There is nothing stopping them for passing around that tag to already existing models and units, like they did with the Thamarite and Morrowan tag like they did for Flames.
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Post by Azahul on Jun 28, 2020 21:37:38 GMT
There is nothing stopping them, sure, but Long Riders and Champs already exist in multiple themes, and none of the Troll units Azazello seems to want feels like they fit thematically from what little we know going in. It's possible, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if any of them are in there
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jun 29, 2020 21:06:19 GMT
thematically I think the champions might be the only unit of the bunch I could see getting the Dhunian tag - y'know, champions of the people, warriors priests, that kind of stuff. Hell, Borka1 has (slight) Champions vibes and he's a priest.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 19, 2020 16:40:10 GMT
So hows everyones games with him going? Did beacon turn out to be the rule that saves thornfall or does sextuple achons reign supreeme?
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Post by Dirhavel on Jul 19, 2020 19:36:13 GMT
I haven't played him in TFA since the beacon update, but everything he does besides Henchmen is just better in WWFF. If you absolutely want to play in thornfall, he's definitely not the worst warlock for that. But his kit just synergizes way better with the WWFF roster... Personally I've had a lot of fun with Nyss Hunters. They're possibly the best Phantasm target in faction; their natural def 14 means they benefit greatly from duelist and/or from the MAT debuff from Distraction; they hit pretty hard on feat turn; beacon let's them threaten 13". And you don't mind a couple dying on the approach because they feed souls to your voids
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