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Post by newangel on Oct 14, 2018 11:14:40 GMT
So I didn't really consider him while the CID was ongoing, but wow! I have since had the opportunity to practice with him since and am on a bit of a winning streak so I thought it's worth sharing with the wider community. So far undefeated into:
Maelok 4x Posse Spam (Blindwater) Barnabus2 twice (Blindwater)
Zaadesh2 (double Turtles in Imperial Warhost)
Zaal2 twice (Exalted) Vlad2 (Armored Corps) Rahn (Forges of War) Heretic (Bump)
So there's some variety there, but most importantly I'm seeing him as a decent pair for whatever the second list may be. I know eKrueger is currently popular but I'm still hooked on Wurmwood and I'm seeing this as a solid staple in tournament pairings.
There are a few reasons behind my choice running Baldur1 and I know CID is not finalized yet, but from my own experience Baldur1 (along with Una2) was never far off from being viable in Devourers Host. A key point in favour is that since the Ret CID they have so many variations of lists that it can be hard to bring a definitive answer (my eKrueger and Wurmwood games are IMO 50/50 - slightly better if I win first turn, and slightly worse if I go second. It really doesn't help that Ret is highly represented in my meta and I'm likely to see anything from Kae, Rahn, Issyria, Vyros1, Vyros2, Ossyan, Goreshade4 or Ravyn). I firmly believe that Baldur brings a very solid solution to a large majority of those matchups. While I haven't got any table time to show otherwise the theory in my head also says he's great into Cryx as well (Dark Host and Black Industries are probably not great into it).
Another major point in favour is the control feat. In many cases it's a time walk and as long as you know your opponent's threat ranges and they have little access to flight, ghostly or incorporeal it really allows you to get the alpha, or even apply huge scenario pressure. While that hasn't really changed from before the CID, the fact that models may all start with a corpse and Tharn are more dangerous on the charge does impact what your opponent should expect from them.
The changes to the LotF also IMO make him an auto-include with Baldur. Stone Skin, 3 Corpses and usually with Puppet Master, Eyeless Sight and magic weapon make him deadly. He can be mitigated, but if your opponent gets careless they can very easily find themselves assassinated (in my own games he has assassinated Zaal2 and in all other games he has been relevant to just ruining their day). And at the end of the day Grievous Wounds can shut down a lot of work surviving models can do.
I'm still learning with the list myself and I know it may be subject to change, but I would encourage people to put him on the table and get some reps in (if CID battles is a thing in your meta). I haven't been this excited for Circle in quite a while.
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Post by elshinare on Oct 14, 2018 22:45:18 GMT
This is a list I was testing with, did some good work against a few lists but still needs practice against meta defining lists. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmK4QfrmVfCmImF5q4_mQ4_mQCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Megalith [20] Bloodweaver Night Witch [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4]
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Post by phantomsig on Oct 14, 2018 23:12:14 GMT
Baldur1 seems awesome with Tharn, how much would the list suffer against lots of ghostly or flying?
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Post by Trollock on Oct 15, 2018 7:37:15 GMT
This is a list I was testing with, did some good work against a few lists but still needs practice against meta defining lists. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmK4QfrmVfCmImF5q4_mQ4_mQCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Megalith [20] Bloodweaver Night Witch [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Are you sure Megalith is worth it? He does not get the +2 STR we all assume the stones always have and the Geomancy option isnt super valuable either. He costs you ~25 points as he prevents the third free solo. Why not drop him for a full unit of Ravagers plus a Whitemane?
Also, the Bloodshaman HAS to be better than for example the night witch. You have plenty of targets to sacrifice, and he puts the output of a beast through the roof.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 15, 2018 8:21:37 GMT
Earth Spikes is a really nice Geomancy and undergrowth is undergrowth.
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Post by newangel on Oct 15, 2018 13:45:01 GMT
I actually just realized I forgot to post the list I have been using (all games have been played with the same list)
Baldur1 -Ghetorix -Gnarlhorn
Bog Trog Mistspeaker LotF (free) Tharn Ravager Shaman (free) Bloodweaver Night Witch
Croc Pot Max Ravagers + CA Max Ravagers + CA (free) Max Bloodtrackers + CA Bloodweavers
I've had to make a few sacrifices (no Whitemane is the hardest for Veteran Leader, and while the Warlock attachment brings great consistency and some cool abilities I can't justify her over the Bloodweavers with the utility they bring - could replace the Night Witch if the Ravager Shaman drops a point though) but haven't regretted the overall utility over a few nice solos.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 15, 2018 13:50:06 GMT
This is a list I was testing with, did some good work against a few lists but still needs practice against meta defining lists. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmK4QfrmVfCmImF5q4_mQ4_mQCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Megalith [20] Bloodweaver Night Witch [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] You might want to check your list building again El. Haruspex is a character and can't be taken twice. Personally I think Trollock is on the right track except that I would drop the feral not megalith. Ghetorix and Megs will both hit plenty hard enough with stone skin on them and primal is a bit of a trap here. That, and dropping the extra Haruspex gets you the ravagers which will also hit more than hard enough with stone skin to threaten heavies. Hutchuk is an odd choice too. You can get a lot more done in this list with Lanyssa (given that blackclads aren't available) or Eilish to make sure you're not susceptible to things like Rebuke which will ruin your day. Definitely consider the blood shaman over the night witch. A divinely inspired lord of the feast under stone skin is terrifying.
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Post by fanbloodytastic on Oct 15, 2018 18:02:33 GMT
Haruspex is fa 3, so his list is legal.
I know when I tried a list with Megalith and Baldur I also brought a well. There were plenty of targets to give corpses, it has great synergy with Baldur’s feat and solid ground, and if really needed you could bring in a stone shaper for the +2 strength.
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Post by elshinare on Oct 15, 2018 18:02:35 GMT
This is a list I was testing with, did some good work against a few lists but still needs practice against meta defining lists. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j4mmDmK4QfrmVfCmImF5q4_mQ4_mQCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Megalith [20] Bloodweaver Night Witch [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] You might want to check your list building again El. Haruspex is a character and can't be taken twice. Personally I think Trollock is on the right track except that I would drop the feral not megalith. Ghetorix and Megs will both hit plenty hard enough with stone skin on them and primal is a bit of a trap here. That, and dropping the extra Haruspex gets you the ravagers which will also hit more than hard enough with stone skin to threaten heavies. Hutchuk is an odd choice too. You can get a lot more done in this list with Lanyssa (given that blackclads aren't available) or Eilish to make sure you're not susceptible to things like Rebuke which will ruin your day. Definitely consider the blood shaman over the night witch. A divinely inspired lord of the feast under stone skin is terrifying. You're thinking of the blood shaman, Haruspex is fa3 command attachment
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 15, 2018 18:49:11 GMT
Well so it is ... funny I always assumed haruspex was a proper name since everybody capitalizes it. That is definitely interesting for list building.
Still stand by my change comments though. I don't see your list getting much out of double blood weavers.
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Post by elshinare on Oct 15, 2018 19:00:07 GMT
Well so it is ... funny I always assumed haruspex was a proper name since everybody capitalizes it. That is definitely interesting for list building. Still stand by my change comments though. I don't see your list getting much out of double blood weavers. You should try it, similar in fashion to having double WoO but with AD, stealth, and DI. They can eat through arm 17 without stoneskin, with stoneskin they were able to eat down an arm 19 heavy. DI can be bonkers good.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 15, 2018 19:10:46 GMT
P+S 13 0.5" reach with DI doesn't really compare favorably to P+S 17 +corpse for additional P+S 15 with reach. The ambushing unit is great to get the theme benefit but then you're throwing away the other benefit with only LotF to actually use a corpse. Ravagers also love having B1's forest to hide in or behind.
I tried both units with him during week 2 and far preferred the ravagers.
I basically played Newangel's list minus the pot and plus a haruspex.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 16, 2018 14:19:44 GMT
Well so it is ... funny I always assumed haruspex was a proper name since everybody capitalizes it. That is definitely interesting for list building. Still stand by my change comments though. I don't see your list getting much out of double blood weavers. From wikipedia: In the religion of Ancient Rome, a haruspex (plural haruspices; also called aruspex) was a person trained to practice a form of divination called haruspicy (haruspicina), the inspection of the entrails (exta—hence also extispicy (extispicium)) of sacrificed animals, especially the livers of sacrificed sheep and poultry. The Tharn are just rude romans.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 16, 2018 14:24:02 GMT
I'm not a fan of the ambush benefit... At all. But people seemed happy with it and it was never put in question.
I'd like to have seen a benefit for female and male tharn. Ambush on weavers is thematically poor (but it's only unit that could have it) and it's already present on Wild Hunt where I think it is a good benefit. I don't know what benefit female Tharn could provide or get but it's porobably a moot point by now.
Sadly it'll probably end up being replaced on Wild Hunt by something else.
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Post by musza on Oct 17, 2018 7:10:01 GMT
You might want to check your list building again El. Haruspex is a character and can't be taken twice. Personally I think Trollock is on the right track except that I would drop the feral not megalith. Ghetorix and Megs will both hit plenty hard enough with stone skin on them and primal is a bit of a trap here. That, and dropping the extra Haruspex gets you the ravagers which will also hit more than hard enough with stone skin to threaten heavies. Hutchuk is an odd choice too. You can get a lot more done in this list with Lanyssa (given that blackclads aren't available) or Eilish to make sure you're not susceptible to things like Rebuke which will ruin your day. Definitely consider the blood shaman over the night witch. A divinely inspired lord of the feast under stone skin is terrifying. Bloodweaver Night Witch has dispel so there's no need for Eilish. I like the list OP posted. I was looking at Baldur1 DH with Well and Blood Shaman, I think he is the best Bloodtrackers warlock out there and he feels like all-arounder which is a trait I like for a competitive meta.
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