vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Oct 17, 2018 13:56:53 GMT
I actually just realized I forgot to post the list I have been using (all games have been played with the same list) Baldur1 -Ghetorix -Gnarlhorn Bog Trog Mistspeaker LotF (free) Tharn Ravager Shaman (free) Bloodweaver Night Witch Croc Pot Max Ravagers + CA Max Ravagers + CA (free) Max Bloodtrackers + CA Bloodweavers I've had to make a few sacrifices (no Whitemane is the hardest for Veteran Leader, and while the Warlock attachment brings great consistency and some cool abilities I can't justify her over the Bloodweavers with the utility they bring - could replace the Night Witch if the Ravager Shaman drops a point though) but haven't regretted the overall utility over a few nice solos. First, thanks for the thread. You made me want to play Baldur again after a long time. I also like both the volume of bodies and utility your list brings. With Solid Ground probably being always upkept, how do you feel about the value the Ravager Shaman brings to the table? You also mentioned it’d probably be fine into Dark Host, but as the feat is basically ignored by it, what do you consider to be path to victory in this matchup?
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Post by newangel on Oct 17, 2018 14:33:37 GMT
For me the Shaman is essential, not due to no KD, but for magic weapons for a unit. This allows pretty much anything in the list to be able to go after incorporeal models and makes the PoM matchup easier.
Also Dark Host may well ignore the feat, but it is primarily good into low model count/high value armies. Bones (for Circle) or Warjack spam is a good example. The list I've been using has the weight of attacks to chew through multiple models per activating unit and even hits hard enough to worry Bane Riders or the BE which makes even trades far more difficult. The LotF will also get some great value if he gets into cavalry, or even removes a standard and/or CA for the Bane Warriors - No tough or recursion makes Ravagers happy. Heck, he could even go after a BE if you can follow up with magical Bloodtracker attacks. Stalkers are the largest problem in the list, but really they'll probably only kill a couple of models each before being removed, even under Skarre's feat.
It's mostly theory in my head, but from my previous experience into the list it makes sense. Banes don't have the weight of attacks to chew through so many models. There are probably other Warcasters who could run DH and do some different things, but it's Skarre1 that I see in my meta.
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Oct 17, 2018 14:58:18 GMT
For me the Shaman is essential, not due to no KD, but for magic weapons for a unit. This allows pretty much anything in the list to be able to go after incorporeal models and makes the PoM matchup easier. Also Dark Host may well ignore the feat, but it is primarily good into low model count/high value armies. Bones (for Circle) or Warjack spam is a good example. The list I've been using has the weight of attacks to chew through multiple models per activating unit and even hits hard enough to worry Bane Riders or the BE which makes even trades far more difficult. The LotF will also get some great value if he gets into cavalry, or even removes a standard and/or CA for the Bane Warriors - No tough or recursion makes Ravagers happy. Heck, he could even go after a BE if you can follow up with magical Bloodtracker attacks. Stalkers are the largest problem in the list, but really they'll probably only kill a couple of models each before being removed, even under Skarre's feat. It's mostly theory in my head, but from my previous experience into the list it makes sense. Banes don't have the weight of attacks to chew through so many models. There are probably other Warcasters who could run DH and do some different things, but it's Skarre1 that I see in my meta. Thanks a lot for the elaboration! Makes much more sense now. I just might try it after the rules go official. One last thing - why the Gnarlhorn and not the Shadowhorn (they cost the same, right?)? To give he list some extra control options combined with the feat?
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Post by Forsaken on Oct 18, 2018 5:01:55 GMT
Baldur1 is good with the Tharn. I tried him in the CID and he did well.
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Post by newangel on Oct 20, 2018 14:00:21 GMT
For me the Shaman is essential, not due to no KD, but for magic weapons for a unit. This allows pretty much anything in the list to be able to go after incorporeal models and makes the PoM matchup easier. Also Dark Host may well ignore the feat, but it is primarily good into low model count/high value armies. Bones (for Circle) or Warjack spam is a good example. The list I've been using has the weight of attacks to chew through multiple models per activating unit and even hits hard enough to worry Bane Riders or the BE which makes even trades far more difficult. The LotF will also get some great value if he gets into cavalry, or even removes a standard and/or CA for the Bane Warriors - No tough or recursion makes Ravagers happy. Heck, he could even go after a BE if you can follow up with magical Bloodtracker attacks. Stalkers are the largest problem in the list, but really they'll probably only kill a couple of models each before being removed, even under Skarre's feat. It's mostly theory in my head, but from my previous experience into the list it makes sense. Banes don't have the weight of attacks to chew through so many models. There are probably other Warcasters who could run DH and do some different things, but it's Skarre1 that I see in my meta. Thanks a lot for the elaboration! Makes much more sense now. I just might try it after the rules go official. One last thing - why the Gnarlhorn and not the Shadowhorn (they cost the same, right?)? To give he list some extra control options combined with the feat? Sorry for the late reply. Work has been busy the last few days. However, to address the point in question - The Gnarlhorn, simply put, is a better beater. The Shadowhorn has far better mobility, but typically is used as for piece trading. Baldur doesn't need to trade pieces. Also the Shadowhorn can get so far up the board it can push Baldur further up the field than he feels comfortable with (14/16 is pretty bad with regards to surviving dedicated attacks, and he loves to spend his stack each turn getting work done). The animus of the Gnarlhorn can also be key in some matchups. No Stationary is situationally brilliant, but the best example would be someone like Rahn or eKrueger who loves to pull you out of position with pushes. Not any more! In my game against Rahn I actually misplayed and didn't cast the animus which would have allowed a boosted TK to pull me out of position, followed by Helios dragging me to certain doom. But, for the first time in my gaming career, a counter slam saved me and engaged the arc node. I also had a couple of games today to continue my testing (we have a big national tournament here in China in early November and Baldur is in my pairing regardless of CID outcome). Played into Ossrum followed by Haley3. Both games were pretty fast. Ossrum rage quit bottom of 2 when LotF and Bloodtrackers removed a light and dinged up his heavies enough that he was about to lose his entire battlegroup regardless of a counter-feat. Haley3 went a similar way, but with the LotF doing much more work...4 Trenchers, Maxwell, 2 Trench busters and baby Haley.
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maffo
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by maffo on Oct 22, 2018 21:02:25 GMT
Im thinking this for baldur1 DH
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
[Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [5] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Bríghid & Caul [7] Death Wolves [9] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [0(4)] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5]
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 22, 2018 22:41:15 GMT
I tried using Baldur 1 with Tharn vs Satyxis Denny 1.
I wasn't hugely impressed with Baldur or Bloodweavers. I was in a winning position, but any Tharn list can do that vs Satyxis.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 23, 2018 5:01:10 GMT
I tried using Baldur 1 with Tharn vs Satyxis Denny 1. I wasn't hugely impressed with Baldur or Bloodweavers. I was in a winning position, but any Tharn list can do that vs Satyxis. You weren't impressed because that army needs an accuracy fixer. Baldur1 is an armor cracker and he buys you an alpha. He's not bad into that matchup its just not his bread and butter. Pair a Baldur1 ravager list with a pKreuger infantry sweeper and then you'll be cooking with gas.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 23, 2018 19:18:40 GMT
I tried using Baldur 1 with Tharn vs Satyxis Denny 1. I wasn't hugely impressed with Baldur or Bloodweavers. I was in a winning position, but any Tharn list can do that vs Satyxis. You weren't impressed because that army needs an accuracy fixer. Baldur1 is an armor cracker and he buys you an alpha. He's not bad into that matchup its just not his bread and butter. Pair a Baldur1 ravager list with a pKreuger infantry sweeper and then you'll be cooking with gas. This! This so much! Honestly though Mat 8 Ravagers with hearts and vet leader should do pretty darn well into Def 14 spam. Take a night witch to dispell the upkeeps! I was thinking of running this at some point: [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [0(5)] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Bríghid & Caul [7] Shifting Stones [3] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Well Ill run that once I get done running Mohsar....
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Post by jisidro on Oct 23, 2018 19:52:18 GMT
I also like pkrueger but he has no hit, dmg or arm fixer... I like pKrueger because of the DEF skew aspect.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 23, 2018 20:01:37 GMT
I also like pkrueger but he has no hit, dmg or arm fixer... I like pKrueger because of the DEF skew aspect. Yeah that's always been his problem. I feel like tharn cover that very well though. The tharn are kind of a kill infantry harder type theme and then you can build a really burly battle group to cover the slack. Double blood weavers + haruspexes and night witches combine so well with lightning tendrils that its just gross. Toss in a whitemane if you're really feeling cheeky. The blood shaman gives him a way to cast gale winds and get a juggle of LT out so you can actually leverage his kit. Alternatively a divinely inspired blood witch with LT on her will kill the world. Thinking of something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j40mDmK4MmRfrfrmV4_mQ4_mQ525wCircle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Krueger 1] Krueger the Stormwrath [+28] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Ghetorix [19] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Gallows Grove [2] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [16] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [0(5)] Could even drop the ravagers and just take another feral+gallows or a stalker
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Post by jisidro on Oct 23, 2018 22:41:04 GMT
Wolf Riders and Wolf Champions sound insane with tendrils. Not a fan of the weavers tbh... Damm theme, we will always be missing out of parts of the benefit by design...
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Post by Trollock on Oct 24, 2018 2:17:55 GMT
streetpizzaYou have payed the pre cid price for ravagers, so you have another point left. jisidroWhat do you mean that we will always miss out on part of the theme benefit by design? Or is it sone other benefit you are talking about?
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 24, 2018 4:25:50 GMT
I tried using Baldur 1 with Tharn vs Satyxis Denny 1. I wasn't hugely impressed with Baldur or Bloodweavers. I was in a winning position, but any Tharn list can do that vs Satyxis. You weren't impressed because that army needs an accuracy fixer. Baldur1 is an armor cracker and he buys you an alpha. He's not bad into that matchup its just not his bread and butter. Pair a Baldur1 ravager list with a pKreuger infantry sweeper and then you'll be cooking with gas. Uhh, not at all? Like, the matchups attrition was a crushing victory for me. Hitting satyxis is easy, it's only 7s and you have multiple chances with corpses. The bloodtrackers just block with their face and poke the arc nodes who come forward. I didn't like the feel of it because I've used other casters (who don't have hit buffs either) and they just feel better than baldur 1. Hes as good an armour cracker as wurmwood. The only thing I really liked about baldur was 31 wbp because I could put ghetto and a gnarlhorn in the same list without losing death wolves and croc pot.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 24, 2018 7:23:35 GMT
You weren't impressed because that army needs an accuracy fixer. Baldur1 is an armor cracker and he buys you an alpha. He's not bad into that matchup its just not his bread and butter. Pair a Baldur1 ravager list with a pKreuger infantry sweeper and then you'll be cooking with gas. Uhh, not at all? Like, the matchups attrition was a crushing victory for me. Hitting satyxis is easy, it's only 7s and you have multiple chances with corpses. The bloodtrackers just block with their face and poke the arc nodes who come forward. I didn't like the feel of it because I've used other casters (who don't have hit buffs either) and they just feel better than baldur 1. Hes as good an armour cracker as wurmwood. The only thing I really liked about baldur was 31 wbp because I could put ghetto and a gnarlhorn in the same list without losing death wolves and croc pot. Id think his biggest strength would be solid ground with stealth hihh def infantry. It becomes hard to kill them efficiently. The warpwolves also like not being knicked down i guess. DEF 14 is way better when you actually get to use it XD
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