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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 20, 2017 2:14:25 GMT
FWIW, I think rule sets like those attached to the the Ret BE are the inevitable end result of juggernaut models, and exactly why I hate them from a gameplay mechanic. Why is it the Juggernaught and Never the Crusader?
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Post by Cryptix on May 20, 2017 3:37:34 GMT
FWIW, I think rule sets like those attached to the the Ret BE are the inevitable end result of juggernaut models, and exactly why I hate them from a gameplay mechanic. Why is it the Juggernaught and Never the Crusader? I don't think he meant it that way...
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Post by Swampmist on May 20, 2017 3:47:24 GMT
Juggernaught the concept, not the jack .
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Post by greytemplar on May 20, 2017 3:53:30 GMT
On a side note, its clear that PP has no idea what the Crusader concept actually is and how to apply it to their design of the Protectorate's Knights.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 20, 2017 15:28:39 GMT
FWIW, I think rule sets like those attached to the the Ret BE are the inevitable end result of juggernaut models, and exactly why I hate them from a gameplay mechanic. Why is it the Juggernaught and Never the Crusader? I meant the superheavy, the colossal, the huge base. the gazillion dollar model I don't have patience to paint or room to store that must be immune to half the rules to function. Honestly, it's really only that last bit that bugs me, but jeez does it get under my skin. "waah! I spent half my army points on something like a dum dum and he disrupted it!" deal with it. Every single game I've ever had with a huge base model instantly becomes about that huge base, and this goes for every game I've played that has them. 40K is the worst offender, but PP's recent battle engine update has me nervous on several fronts, and this is one of them.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 21, 2017 1:11:19 GMT
character jacks and heavy hitters can generally 1 turn focus kill huge based models. They are impressive and can do a lot, but they are only worth their point cost. When things get cheep is when you bring in proper support and really make them rampage. It's like putting an upkeep on 3 models for the price of 1. Proper positioning can also FORCE you to take it out before getting to the caster (unless you have ghostly, eyeless sight, incorporeal, etc)
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Post by Swampmist on May 21, 2017 5:25:47 GMT
If the discussion is looking at the specific Example of the TEP, I'd argue it is currently the hardest to kill BE on the market. Sure, a fully loaded heavy will kill it in melee, but Polarity field and it's massive (now damage boosted!) guns make it nearly impossible to get into melee with unless you have some way to walk like 12" from behind LOS blocking terrain.
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Post by greytemplar on May 21, 2017 5:26:26 GMT
Well, if games were larger(100 points), then Colossals and Battle Engines individually would have a lessened board presence. The game would still likely have it be a focal point, as it should be, but it would be to a lesser degree.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 21, 2017 23:52:50 GMT
If the discussion is looking at the specific Example of the TEP, I'd argue it is currently the hardest to kill BE on the market. Sure, a fully loaded heavy will kill it in melee, but Polarity field and it's massive (now damage boosted!) guns make it nearly impossible to get into melee with unless you have some way to walk like 12" from behind LOS blocking terrain. isn't that the AFG? or do they both get it now?
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Post by Swampmist on May 21, 2017 23:56:14 GMT
sorry meant the AFG, though I honestly think it's on the same tier as the TEP now
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Post by macdaddy on May 22, 2017 0:27:09 GMT
sorry meant the AFG, though I honestly think it's on the same tier as the TEP now And Ret players are convinced it's "finally up to par" Honestly just ditch carapace and give it Arm 19 I'll stop whining at that point
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Post by Swampmist on May 22, 2017 0:29:59 GMT
sorry meant the AFG, though I honestly think it's on the same tier as the TEP now And Ret players are convinced it's "finally up to par" Honestly just ditch carapace and give it Arm 19 I'll stop whining at that point I'd rather it keep carapace and lose polarity field. If it's meant to be a dug-in shooting piece, then carapace does make a lot of sense for it. But not being able to charge their huge base that can almost one-round a jack with said shooting based purely on it's stats, that I'm not ok with.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 22, 2017 0:49:26 GMT
I'd rather it keep carapace and lose polarity field. If it's meant to be a dug-in shooting piece, then carapace does make a lot of sense for it. But not being able to charge their huge base that can almost one-round a jack with said shooting based purely on it's stats, that I'm not ok with. Eh. Two Boosted Bow 16s is very powerful but its not one rounding a Jack. I am jealous of how well designed and unified it is. The Salty Train is much better then before, but It's so confused in what it wants to do. Carriages do not want to be in melee but Soles wills it I suppose.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 22, 2017 1:52:20 GMT
I'd rather it keep carapace and lose polarity field. If it's meant to be a dug-in shooting piece, then carapace does make a lot of sense for it. But not being able to charge their huge base that can almost one-round a jack with said shooting based purely on it's stats, that I'm not ok with. Eh. Two Boosted Bow 16s is very powerful but its not one rounding a Jack. I am jealous of how well designed and unified it is. The Salty Train is much better then before, but It's so confused in what it wants to do. Carriages do not want to be in melee but Soles wills it I suppose. yeah, it's a self contained fortress with no apparent weakness. I'd be fine if it had a shifting shield that could be set to function as carapace OR polarity, but not both at once. it's just dumb. Also, the melee carriage thing bothers me too, but I shut up about it once that one dude got banned for trying to push that argument.
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Post by Swampmist on May 22, 2017 2:01:31 GMT
Does carapace work on magic?
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