bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Sept 19, 2018 14:46:37 GMT
And fwiw Skarre3 banes is the only Skarre3 list I’ve actually put on the table and I honestly don’t think it’s that great, there are multiple other Cryx casters that just do Banes better.
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Post by HighPaladin on Sept 19, 2018 15:07:48 GMT
And fwiw Skarre3 banes is the only Skarre3 list I’ve actually put on the table and I honestly don’t think it’s that great, there are multiple other Cryx casters that just do Banes better. I think Skarre 3 in Slaughter Fleet is where it's at, tbh. The theme is just so diverse that you can make a much better generalist list with it than you can with Dark Host and Skarre 3 is the generalist supreme (in Cryx). It's probably just a better theme.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Sept 19, 2018 16:45:48 GMT
To be clear, I've only theoried Dark Host with Skarre3, but it looks legit to me.
I've played the other 3 themes, and they're all scary. Giving Cryx slipstream is just silly in BI, as is the combination of Decel and guided fire. Scourge is just silly with Dash - it's the the +1 SPD that does it (although that is nice to have), but rather the stupid mobility tricks enabled by giving Satyxis of all stripes Parry. Decel is quite nice in scourge to save your super-solos from scattering blasts and the like, but will do very little to protect infantry. Slaughter Fleet doesn't lean hard into any part of her kit, but it uses everything on her card, which no other theme really does.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 19, 2018 22:19:38 GMT
I tried to explain multiple times in the CID that Skarre 3 didn't do any one specific thing that breaks the game, rather she just does too much total. She is just too good at too many things all around.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Sept 20, 2018 0:31:52 GMT
I think there's not much need to nerf Slayers right now. I talked to Keith C after our game and he felt that the Asphyxious list, while still strong, is phasing out of the meta and was the wrong choice to bring to the WTC. Other Cryx players I've spoken to feel similarly. Skarre 3, though - that shit is real good Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Sept 20, 2018 9:50:35 GMT
I think there's not much need to nerf Slayers right now. I talked to Keith C after our game and he felt that the Asphyxious list, while still strong, is phasing out of the meta and was the wrong choice to bring to the WTC. Other Cryx players I've spoken to feel similarly. Skarre 3, though - that shit is real good Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam. This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 20, 2018 10:26:45 GMT
Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam. This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going The real problem comes when we have to tech against Cryx (or Cygnar when they're on top) with special considerations above and beyond even what we would need for the most popular faction if that were anyone else.
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Post by albertairish on Sept 20, 2018 12:15:05 GMT
Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam. This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going How about this - I wish that Cryx wasn't currently the best at running infantry-heavy lists AND the best warjack brick in the game.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Sept 20, 2018 12:23:39 GMT
This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going How about this - I wish that Cryx wasn't currently the best at running infantry-heavy lists AND the best warjack brick in the game. Does Cryx run better infantry than Anamag? Or Harby EI? Or several other meta defining lists in other factions that are being disregarded. This thread started as a witch hunt before wtc, then when cryx performed almost exactly in the mid point, just continues to be a witch hunt. It’s tiring.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 20, 2018 12:30:40 GMT
This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going The real problem comes when we have to tech against Cryx (or Cygnar when they're on top) with special considerations above and beyond even what we would need for the most popular faction if that were anyone else. Which at it's core is not isolated to Cryx. Maelok was a pretty big squabble when it first came to light. It just happens that Cryx is a repeat offender from back in MKII.
From what it sounds like Gaspy isn't so much the alpha dog and has just become a scare tactic. It's still ridiculous to deal with but... idk. I think a little more time will tell.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Sept 20, 2018 15:55:03 GMT
Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam. This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going 5 out of 6 of your Themes are already Infantry based mate. But it's not about pidgeonholing anyone. It's about removing the amount of special considerations 80% of the player base have to take in order to fight Cryx. If anything, Cryx has the meta by the balls, both of your list have to deal with hard hitting, fast, recurring infantry, and with the best Jack Spam in game at the same time. If anything, Cryx is the one pidgeonholing the meta around it, which is why it is usually referred to as a meta-bender. And since you don't like pidegonholing, you should be fine with one of your 6 Themes be brought back inline, right?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Sept 20, 2018 16:02:40 GMT
How about this - I wish that Cryx wasn't currently the best at running infantry-heavy lists AND the best warjack brick in the game. Does Cryx run better infantry than Anamag? Or Harby EI? Or several other meta defining lists in other factions that are being disregarded. This thread started as a witch hunt before wtc, then when cryx performed almost exactly in the mid point, just continues to be a witch hunt. It’s tiring. Nope, but you don't need to have the same considerations for Legion or Menoth as you do Cryx. That's the main point. Is Legion running both a great Infantry list and the best Beast Brick in the game? how about Menoth, can they pair their awesome Infantry lists with an effective Jack list that's over the power curve? Hell, Khador has one of the best Heavy infantry Themes right now, and a very mediocre Jack list. Both of which can be fought without having to tech heavily one way or the other. Also, nearly at 60% is not "almost exactly the mid point", that's just some weird faction biased gaslighting.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Sept 20, 2018 16:09:24 GMT
Does Cryx run better infantry than Anamag? Or Harby EI? Or several other meta defining lists in other factions that are being disregarded. This thread started as a witch hunt before wtc, then when cryx performed almost exactly in the mid point, just continues to be a witch hunt. It’s tiring. Nope, but you don't need to have the same considerations for Legion or Menoth as you do Cryx. That's the main point. Is Legion running both a great Infantry list and the best Beast Brick in the game? how about Menoth, can they pair their awesome Infantry lists with an effective Jack list that's over the power curve? Hell, Khador has one of the best Heavy infantry Themes right now, and a very mediocre Jack list. Both of which can be fought without having to tech heavily one way or the other. Also, nearly at 60% is not "almost exactly the mid point", that's just some weird faction biased gaslighting. WMH Battle Reporter has cryx at 52% and 6th highest overall faction, Lich3 was at 58 which is maybe what you’re thinking. And gtfo with “gaslighting”. What nonsense
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Post by oncomingstorm on Sept 20, 2018 16:17:53 GMT
Facing off against Cryx would be a HELL of a lot easier if you would only have to Tech against one type of List. I rather deal with the Devil I Know, i.e. Cryx Infantry, than that shit from left field that's Slayer Spam. This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going The allowable strength of a skew is inversely proportional to the strength of the (non-skew, or alternative skew) pairing options. If Cryx can run various (strong) forms of infantry skew (and they can, in 5/6 themes) they probably can't be allowed to pair those themes with a strong jack skew which can hard counter many of the answers to said infantry skews (traditionally, shooting and other infantry-hate tools). It creates a list chicken which is oppressive in a way which goes beyond the simple winrate of BI. It's the reason why BI draws the most hate, even though Skarre1 Dark Host or Skarre3 Slaughter Fleet are probably stronger lists. At least those lists play the same type of game as the rest of Cryx, such that it's possible to build answers to them into a single list. The same cannot be said of BI/Gaspy 9 Slayers.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 20, 2018 16:38:59 GMT
This is a pretty shitty wish right here. You don’t see anyone lobbying for Khador to only be playable with jack-spam, or Menoth only playable with weaponmasters. I understand you’re frustrated with Cryx, but a desire to pigeonhole factions ends nowhere worth going The allowable strength of a skew is inversely proportional to the strength of the (non-skew, or alternative skew) pairing options. If Cryx can run various (strong) forms of infantry skew (and they can, in 5/6 themes) they probably can't be allowed to pair those themes with a strong jack skew which can hard counter many of the answers to said infantry skews (traditionally, shooting and other infantry-hate tools). It creates a list chicken which is oppressive in a way which goes beyond the simple winrate of BI. It's the reason why BI draws the most hate, even though Skarre1 Dark Host or Skarre3 Slaughter Fleet are probably stronger lists. At least those lists play the same type of game as the rest of Cryx, such that it's possible to build answers to them into a single list. The same cannot be said of BI/Gaspy 9 Slayers. It's a balancing aspect that does not come up nearly enough.
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