skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
|
Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 18, 2018 0:12:44 GMT
You don't have to shoot down 9 of them. You have to cripple or kill about 5-6 of them depending on how you're put together. And that's a pure gunline. A more balanced force probably only needs to kill or cripple about 4 of them. That's enough to even things out. As an example my primary tournament list, X2 double Derps and Drake's is a toss up into Gaspy3 9 Slayers. It's very dice determined. 7 pow14 Boosted Signs + Portents shots will kill just about 2 of them. That's not enough work. But if I cripple a couple and kill a nother one that's enough from my guns. The turtles will take out 1-2 each in melee and put chip damage out with the guns. But the point is very much, I take out 5 on my alpha, I usually cruise to victory. I only get 4, I get overwhelmed. You don't need to take out all 9 on 1-2 turns of shooting. Saying that double Siege Animantrax can handle them is not a compelling argument for something being balanced. I totally get the cutsey ribbing. But that right there is a great example of being over-tuned. Both the derp turtles and the thing that Slayers become under Gaspy3 BI are just a bit too much above the curve. Neither is game breaking, the WTC results tell us this. But both are just too much as is. Both need toning down just a smidge. (The difference is Derpy is keeping my faction afloat, Cryx will just pick a new favorite)
|
|
marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Post by marke on Sept 18, 2018 9:44:09 GMT
Dunno if I said this already, but change Gaspy3's field marshal to something else (Death Rage?) and mobility to some single target threat extender (Boundless Charge?) could easily be enough.
|
|
|
Post by slaughtersun on Sept 18, 2018 9:51:37 GMT
Just remove "Carapace" from theme and add "Reinforced Plating" - warjacks get +2 armour vs shooting".
This puts them at a respectable 19, above the average jack (18) but still below kahdor levels of armour.
|
|
bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
|
Post by bward on Sept 18, 2018 12:05:55 GMT
I think at this point a nerf fo either Lich, Black Industries, or Slayers has become significantly less likely. In the biggest event in the world it was not even in the top 5 performing lists.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Sept 18, 2018 13:01:41 GMT
I think at this point a nerf fo either Lich, Black Industries, or Slayers has become significantly less likely. In the biggest event in the world it was not even in the top 5 performing lists. I think the thing that shocked me the most is there were over 60 Cryx players, and not a single one went 6-0. I'd have expected a perfect record from at least a few of them.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Sept 18, 2018 13:23:10 GMT
Well....
I was talking to the Cryx player on the English team who came third, and he said that the whole point of Gaspy 9 slayaz is that you don't play it. The amount of matchups that it waffle stops is kind of low. But people see it as really bad, they'll drop their 9 slayer counter, and this counter list cannot stand up to Skarre3.
Which is probably why she had the 70%+ win rate
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 18, 2018 13:46:13 GMT
Well.... I was talking to the Cryx player on the English team who came third, and he said that the whole point of Gaspy 9 slayaz is that you don't play it. The amount of matchups that it waffle stops is kind of low. But people see it as really bad, they'll drop their 9 slayer counter, and this counter list cannot stand up to Skarre3. Which is probably why she had the 70%+ win rate oooooooh. Manipulation. I like it.
Makes perfect sense. But now I gotta look up what the Skarre3 lists were.
|
|
bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
|
Post by bward on Sept 18, 2018 13:51:21 GMT
Well.... I was talking to the Cryx player on the English team who came third, and he said that the whole point of Gaspy 9 slayaz is that you don't play it. The amount of matchups that it waffle stops is kind of low. But people see it as really bad, they'll drop their 9 slayer counter, and this counter list cannot stand up to Skarre3. Which is probably why she had the 70%+ win rate I think she ended at 66%, but regardless of that I do agree. Lich3 helps you win a lot of list decisions, but I also think that the fact that people are capable of playing strong enough counters that you don’t want to drop it means that the list is probably fine as is. Compare to old Denny1GF, where even when people brought hard counters it was still probably worth dropping as a 50/50.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Sept 18, 2018 13:51:46 GMT
Mostly Skarre3 slaughter fleet.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Sept 18, 2018 13:58:45 GMT
Well.... I was talking to the Cryx player on the English team who came third, and he said that the whole point of Gaspy 9 slayaz is that you don't play it. The amount of matchups that it waffle stops is kind of low. But people see it as really bad, they'll drop their 9 slayer counter, and this counter list cannot stand up to Skarre3. Which is probably why she had the 70%+ win rate Only 4 people actually played an Asphyxious3/Skarre3 pairing. Of those 4 only the English player was actually really successful with that plan, and was the only one to never actually Drop Asphyxious3. Wale went 2-2 with Skarre3 & 1-1 with Asphyxious3 Bubba went 2-1 with Skarre3 & 3-0 with Asphyxious3 Peter went 3-2 with Skarre3 & 0-1 with Asphyxious3 (granted his Skarre3 list was in Dark Host not SFR). Though this conversation does now have me wondering about caster drop rates, so I think I’ll calculate that for the faction next.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Sept 18, 2018 14:00:15 GMT
Well.... I was talking to the Cryx player on the English team who came third, and he said that the whole point of Gaspy 9 slayaz is that you don't play it. The amount of matchups that it waffle stops is kind of low. But people see it as really bad, they'll drop their 9 slayer counter, and this counter list cannot stand up to Skarre3. Which is probably why she had the 70%+ win rate I think she ended at 66%, but regardless of that I do agree. Lich3 helps you win a lot of list decisions, but I also think that the fact that people are capable of playing strong enough counters that you don’t want to drop it means that the list is probably fine as is. Compare to old Denny1GF, where even when people brought hard counters it was still probably worth dropping as a 50/50. She ended 66% as a caster, but there were two main builds present, Dark Host & Slaughter Fleet. She ended 73% in Slaughter Fleet.
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Sept 18, 2018 16:05:23 GMT
I think at this point a nerf fo either Lich, Black Industries, or Slayers has become significantly less likely. In the biggest event in the world it was not even in the top 5 performing lists. That was never the case for Marauder or Mad Dog spam either, much less Juggernauts. Yet all got smacked with the nerfhammer even with Khador pulling in significantly less numbers than Cryx is currently.
|
|
|
Post by snotling on Sept 18, 2018 16:11:07 GMT
can anyone link the stats that seem to float around?
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Sept 18, 2018 22:01:58 GMT
I think at this point a nerf fo either Lich, Black Industries, or Slayers has become significantly less likely. In the biggest event in the world it was not even in the top 5 performing lists. That was never the case for Marauder or Mad Dog spam either, much less Juggernauts. Yet all got smacked with the nerfhammer even with Khador pulling in significantly less numbers than Cryx is currently. Marauders & Juggernauts weren’t nerfed because they were too strong, they were nerfed because every reasonable buff proposed to literally every other Khador jack that didn’t see play was basically met with, “but why would I play this over a Marauder/Juggernaut.” They were so efficent that there was no reason to play any other jack.
|
|
marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Post by marke on Sept 19, 2018 5:56:20 GMT
Just remove "Carapace" from theme and add "Reinforced Plating" - warjacks get +2 armour vs shooting". This puts them at a respectable 19, above the average jack (18) but still below kahdor levels of armour. If you want to make the theme unplayable this is a good change. BI is only problematic with Lich3. Cryx jacks still suck, and I don't get how easily people seem to forget this.
|
|