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Post by mcdermott on Sept 15, 2018 18:15:58 GMT
No one is shooting down 9 slayers at speed 8 before they get across the board.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Sept 15, 2018 20:14:25 GMT
But shooting them opens up options. Just taking out 1 or 2 means you can move up aggressively by giving yourself some breathing room to position and contest.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 16, 2018 0:42:30 GMT
No one is shooting down 9 slayers at speed 8 before they get across the board. If they didn't have Carapace, there are gun lines that could do that well enough. Gearhart, Ossyan, Vlad Rockets, and there would probably be something in Bones with the shrimp. Boosted 12s don't do much to ARM 21 but they can tear up 17 just fine.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 16, 2018 1:22:07 GMT
I think you're confusing "will shoot a few of them down" with will shoot down 9 speed 8 slayers before they can engage.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 16, 2018 2:26:01 GMT
I think you're confusing "will shoot a few of them down" with will shoot down 9 speed 8 slayers before they can engage. You don't have to shoot down 9 of them. You have to cripple or kill about 5-6 of them depending on how you're put together. And that's a pure gunline. A more balanced force probably only needs to kill or cripple about 4 of them. That's enough to even things out. As an example my primary tournament list, X2 double Derps and Drake's is a toss up into Gaspy3 9 Slayers. It's very dice determined. 7 pow14 Boosted Signs + Portents shots will kill just about 2 of them. That's not enough work. But if I cripple a couple and kill a nother one that's enough from my guns. The turtles will take out 1-2 each in melee and put chip damage out with the guns. But the point is very much, I take out 5 on my alpha, I usually cruise to victory. I only get 4, I get overwhelmed. You don't need to take out all 9 on 1-2 turns of shooting.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 16, 2018 2:29:58 GMT
Thats my point though. How can so many people read and not get that the point is, "having the ability to knock a few down with shooting that isn't literally the best shooting in the game" SHOULD be the counter to fast fragile hard hitting melee. The thing that keeps that from happening is not unyielding but carapace. You are unloading some of the highest end shooting into the list and its a toss up.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 16, 2018 2:42:18 GMT
Thats my point though. How can so many people read and not get that the point is, "having the ability to knock a few down with shooting that isn't literally the best shooting in the game" SHOULD be the counter to fast fragile hard hitting melee. The thing that keeps that from happening is not unyielding but carapace. You are unloading some of the highest end shooting into the list and its a toss up. I don't disagree with your point. For whatever reason I'm grumpy today and jumped on the bit about shooting them all down. Honestly, I only know the matchup that well because I've tested it alot. My pair is Makeda2 all the Swordsmen. Sometimes there's a dance to see who gets the alpha but it turns out that arm 19 isn't good enough into 30ish pow12 WM's. So my drop is based on the Gaspy pair.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Sept 17, 2018 8:40:43 GMT
It's possible that Cryx will have a win percentage that's vaguely trending towards even at the WTC this year. We all know they won't of course, but it still feels wrong to go for a witch hunt before we get the data. This aged poorly
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Sept 17, 2018 15:03:47 GMT
It's possible that Cryx will have a win percentage that's vaguely trending towards even at the WTC this year. We all know they won't of course, but it still feels wrong to go for a witch hunt before we get the data. This aged poorly Wasn’t their win percentage with no mirrors 52% from that file you posted? Seems fine to me
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Sept 17, 2018 15:22:10 GMT
Wasn’t their win percentage with no mirrors 52% from that file you posted? Seems fine to me Well, we can still argue that the faction is OP and Cryx players are just bad at the game. That’s the argument that gets thrown around when Khador gets a 48% win percentage at a major tournament, so it should work for Cryx... (Tongue planted firmly in cheek, of course)
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Post by drakeraids on Sept 17, 2018 19:35:58 GMT
It's possible that Cryx will have a win percentage that's vaguely trending towards even at the WTC this year. We all know they won't of course, but it still feels wrong to go for a witch hunt before we get the data. This aged poorly I am nothing but highly enthusiastic to be wrong.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 17, 2018 19:45:42 GMT
I mean, it's the boogeyman right now, people teched for it.
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Post by drakeraids on Sept 17, 2018 19:52:01 GMT
I mean, it's the boogeyman right now, people teched for it. People teched against cryx last year and they where nearly 10% higher. If this is accurate this is the closest they've been to 50% since the start of MK3 in the WTC.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Sept 17, 2018 21:17:50 GMT
I mean, it's the boogeyman right now, people teched for it. People teched against cryx last year and they where nearly 10% higher. If this is accurate this is the closest they've been to 50% since the start of MK3 in the WTC. I would assume that all factions, even most list pairs have what it takes to handle the 9 layer Gaspy salad. Old Denny1GF and CovenHost weren't soo direct. They asked much harder tech questions. I still think that Gaspy9 is a bit above the curve, but just a bit. It needs tweaking, not Nerf hammering. This doesn't really change my assessment of that.
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Post by Azuresun on Sept 17, 2018 23:19:49 GMT
I think you're confusing "will shoot a few of them down" with will shoot down 9 speed 8 slayers before they can engage. You don't have to shoot down 9 of them. You have to cripple or kill about 5-6 of them depending on how you're put together. And that's a pure gunline. A more balanced force probably only needs to kill or cripple about 4 of them. That's enough to even things out. As an example my primary tournament list, X2 double Derps and Drake's is a toss up into Gaspy3 9 Slayers. It's very dice determined. 7 pow14 Boosted Signs + Portents shots will kill just about 2 of them. That's not enough work. But if I cripple a couple and kill a nother one that's enough from my guns. The turtles will take out 1-2 each in melee and put chip damage out with the guns. But the point is very much, I take out 5 on my alpha, I usually cruise to victory. I only get 4, I get overwhelmed. You don't need to take out all 9 on 1-2 turns of shooting. Saying that double Siege Animantrax can handle them is not a compelling argument for something being balanced.
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