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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 1, 2018 10:32:54 GMT
So mods got a week to prepare for immense rage. Got it. Protectorate are already in immense rage... look at those medium-base infantry! Then look at Cinerators and Bastions... I’m hoping CID keeps Power Creep in check, but I have less faith. I am cautiously optimistic, as it is a new faction hopefully people should have much less bias when giving feedback, and find it easier to be objective.
I know some pretty bonkers stuff got through Grymkin CID, but I think that is mostly down to the complexity of that faction and how 3-4 weeks is not enough time to catch everything, rather than people deliberately trying to push Grymkin to be as busted as possible.
Crucible Guard on the other hand seems a lot more straightforward, so anything particularly egregious should be caught pretty quickly
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Post by mydnight on Mar 1, 2018 10:34:23 GMT
So mods got a week to prepare for immense rage. Got it. Protectorate are already in immense rage... look at those medium-base infantry! Then look at Cinerators and Bastions... I’m hoping CID keeps Power Creep in check, but I have less faith. They'll give us a salty-exemplar unit, with saltshields and salt-dispensers, and a new continuous effect: "salty". |
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Post by jisidro on Mar 1, 2018 11:19:48 GMT
TBH a lot of the problem with Bastions and cinerators if the internal competition... Good luck matching up to Exemplar Knights dmg wise, good luck competing with errants in sheer unit resilience... Would those CG medium bases play in protectorate?
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Post by mydnight on Mar 1, 2018 11:52:56 GMT
TBH a lot of the problem with Bastions and cinerators if the internal competition... Good luck matching up to Exemplar Knights dmg wise, good luck competing with errants in sheer unit resilience... Would those CG medium bases play in protectorate? Carapace, concealment + spd 5, low cost, will see those CG units a heck lot more used in PoM since they will pretty much be the most resilient infantry unit against shooting. Especially when you slap something like defender's ward on them. I guess if Cinerators were 8/13 they would be preferable than those dudes for some casters like Harbie or Testie.. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 1, 2018 12:06:10 GMT
I think the rules for Bastions and Cinerators are fine, Bastions could probably afford to go up to pow 12, and they have some pretty nice synergies in faction, Sanguine Bond plus healing from the Vessel of Judgement, and they take defensive buffs pretty well.
They are a bit overcosted however, if MoW Demo Corp can go down to 14 points, then that is probably where Bastions and Cinerators need to be.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396 
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Post by Haight on Mar 1, 2018 12:38:31 GMT
I really like Sylvestro (interesting that he's a full caster, i'd heard rumors of him being a Journeyman). The ranged weapon being a grenade is not surprising, though disappointing nonetheless (i loathe grenade weapons as they currently exist for the most part in WM/H).
The spell list is hot (transmutation costing 2 on a 7 focus caster might... be a little too good. That appears to me to be a 3 cost spell because of its buff and debuff nature and the fact its an upkeep). Admonition, Purification, and explosivo are all extremely to situationally useful. Revive's utility will depend solely on the final nature of the infantry available, but usually lends itself to heavy multi-box infantry significantly better. While we know the faction has some of those i don't think we yet know what they do and how useful Revive would be. It's a weird spell that can be extremely good in certain scenarios or a bit of a dud on the spell list depending on army composition and what's available.
Transmutation is hot as hell though.
The different effects are also nice. The speed bump is really cool and will encourage a slightly more in up front playstle to get some extra mileage (ugh, bad pun) from jacks.
The cloud should just state "This model gains stealth while within this cloud effect [stealth blurb]". Unless there's a key point of stealth i'm missing, but i think its all there - attacks further than 5" away miss, not an intervening model, etc. Ephemeral Vitae is really hot as it will keep Sylvestro extremely focus efficient throughout the game making him possibly up to an 11 focus effective caster on any particular turn. EDIT: Ah, wait i know why they did it. They don't want stealth ignoring effects to ignore this. Not sure that's really necessary, frankly, to have a Not-Stealth-But-Totally-Stealth effect that Things-That-Ignore-Stealth-Totally-Don't-Ignore-Not-Stealth-But-Totally-Stealth. Just make it stealth. No need to create a new uber stealth.
The feat is also excellent ; accuracy and damage anomaly fixer assistance with some damage recoup assistance to boot. It's not a game ender in and of its own right, but it is certainly a very nice feat with reasons to use it earlier and later in the game.
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Post by GumbaFish on Mar 1, 2018 13:01:23 GMT
Is it safe to assume that this will be a longer 3-4 week cycle similar to Grymkin?
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 1, 2018 13:45:12 GMT
Haight I'm pretty sure the reason it's not Stealth is so that things that ignore Stealth won't ignore it; it's Super Stealth just by nature of not being called Stealth.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 1, 2018 13:48:07 GMT
Yep, see my earlier edit if you haven't already (i made it prior to your comment, so not sure if you caught it or not).
I am not a fan of "super" abilities in general. The ratio of additional complexity to game depth is not favorable by adding in Super-Tough and Super-Stealth. Feats are one thing (MacBain), but turn to turn abilities are something else. This is also an extremely powerful defense mechanism on demand on a caster - if you want to give a caster on demand stealth that's fine, but giving him on demand super-stealth is quite another.
This is pretty solid protection from 2/3 cardinal attack vectors in the game. Late game you'll have little need for the speed bump in most situations, and keeping your caster alive will be more attractive than a free spell in many too. This ability will make assassinating Sylvestro extremely difficult if left as is.
Change it to stealth on demand. Its more balanced, eliminates a minor avenue of complexity.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 1, 2018 13:48:49 GMT
Impenetrable Haze is very good, but to use it he misses out on another very powerful ability, checks and balances yo!
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 1, 2018 13:51:34 GMT
Also can we please correct the spelling on the title of this thread  |
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 1, 2018 13:55:03 GMT
Yep, see my earlier edit if you haven't already (i made it prior to your comment, so not sure if you caught it or not). I am not a fan of "super" abilities in general. Ah, so you did. I must have glazed over it in my early-morning haze. Question, would Eyeless Sight still ignore it since it's a cloud effect? |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 1, 2018 13:58:15 GMT
Yep, see my earlier edit if you haven't already (i made it prior to your comment, so not sure if you caught it or not). I am not a fan of "super" abilities in general. Ah, so you did. I must have glazed over it in my early-morning haze. Question, would Eyeless Sight still ignore it since it's a cloud effect? I don't think so, eyeless sight states:
Eyeless Sight – This model ignores cloud effects (p. 60)
when determining line of sight. This model ignores concealment
(p. 50) and Stealth (p. 17) and never suffers Blind.
Impenetrable Haze just states attacks from greater than 5" away automatically miss while he is in the cloud.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 1, 2018 14:02:25 GMT
Also can we please correct the spelling on the title of this thread As you wish so shall it be, even if I'm kinda tempted to merge all the CG discussion threads we have. |
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 1, 2018 14:06:57 GMT
Yep, see my earlier edit if you haven't already (i made it prior to your comment, so not sure if you caught it or not). I am not a fan of "super" abilities in general. Ah, so you did. I must have glazed over it in my early-morning haze. Question, would Eyeless Sight still ignore it since it's a cloud effect? NO worries, i actually just edited my last comment too (holy crap you guys are fast this morning) for some additional justification. I contend that Impenetrable Haze is too powerful and should not grant super stealth. It should grant stealth, if anything, because having a caster this difficult to assassinate is probably not very balanced. The checks and balances Cygnarguy throws up are not as choice driven as they may be ; the speed bump will not be nearly as attractive late game, and the free spell while awesome, late game , is fairly paltry on a 7 focus caster with situational spell list (explosivo and revive will not be cast every turn, neither, frankly will Purification, and the remaining spells are an offensive and upkeeps) in lieu of saying to two cardinal attack vectors "Nope". For these reasons i believe Impenetrable Haze should grant regular stealth. |
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