|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 22, 2018 20:08:12 GMT
Do we know when this stuff will be on the CID forum Next wednesday. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 22, 2018 20:19:07 GMT
Best bet, if going about changing the ambush benefit, if the fact that defenders just lost a unit specific ability for a generic one. I'd like a 4" forest, has great synergy with Tharn, great synergy with a lot of our casters and it is terrain manipulation. Forests are probably too strong. They create a completely untouchable bunker for a caster and are almost irrelevant to Tharn because of Treewalker. I don't think a single 4" forest would be too strong. It would need to adjoin an existing piece of terrain to make an actual barrier, and it would substantially limit movement options for the warlock (which is a much bigger deal for warlocks than for warcasters). Clouds are not totally reliable, but behind 2 clouds is a very safe place to stick a caster against most lists that aren't specifically teched for ranged assassination. Even my Krueger2 list (which does run a mist speaker) struggles to reach a caster behind a cloud wall, because it leaves no redundancy for the assassination run. I too dislike ambush as a theme benefit. Bloodweavers should just straight up get ambush, if they're balanced around having it.
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Aug 22, 2018 20:22:39 GMT
Are 2 clouds all that different? The wall also creates no go zones. There's a huge difference. Lots of things in the game ignore clouds. The only things that ignore forests are Birds Eye and Treewalker and a few rare spells that let you ignore LoS entirely.
Agreed (I can't think of anything besides true sight and eyeless sight), that is also why I said one forest and not two.
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Aug 22, 2018 23:12:07 GMT
Do we know when this stuff will be on the CID forum Next wednesday. Weeellllll..... There were some pretty big verbal caveats placed on that date.
|
|
|
Post by bloodhawk on Aug 22, 2018 23:45:34 GMT
I still won't believe it till I see it. Obviously we are getting CID sometime in the near future, but I am not convinced it's going to be this month.
|
|
|
Post by challenger on Aug 23, 2018 4:33:12 GMT
Brief thoughts on the new cid spoilers
Male Tharn healing - its not like theyre chosen, but this seems like a cute way to help stop them getting nickle and dimed by pow 10s and blasts. Good way to offset low arm.
Trackers + Nuala - repo 3 yes! Better costing hurray! Very nice mini feat. I expect theyll be a good unit now although rng7 on the gun is tragic the repo3 helps a ton
Wolf Riders - a big and aggressive change. Im a fan, theyre held back by a few things such as finding landing spots (not easy) and their lack of a durable statline. I think this takes them from a crappy unit to a great unit.
Lord - im kinda not impressed. A 1" sword and no way to overtake seems to really hamper him.
DH theme - i preferred snacking to ambush. I think bloodweavers are a pretty bad unit. The ambush benefit would be nicer if weavers were a good unit
|
|
|
Post by Forsaken on Aug 23, 2018 4:41:57 GMT
I like the idea behind the bloodweavers getting theme ambush, I just don't like the reality of it. It's going to pigeonhole the theme kinda like wolfsworn in Wildhunt (who are better with ambush).
It's clear that the wolfriders are not going to stay like that.
Rapid healing seems better suited to the skinwalkers. I do think the male tharn suffer from a problem here though. What other options are there?
|
|
|
Post by challenger on Aug 23, 2018 4:52:54 GMT
I like the idea behind the bloodweavers getting theme ambush, I just don't like the reality of it. It's going to pigeonhole the theme kinda like wolfsworn in Wildhunt (who are better with ambush). It's clear that the wolfriders are not going to stay like that. Rapid healing seems better suited to the skinwalkers. I do think the male tharn suffer from a problem here though. What other options are there? I dont agree that its clear that wolf riders will change - they have a strong damage output with many limiting factors Generally tharn need an armour cracker and wolf riders will fill that niche very nicely. If you measure it out getting your combo on a jack requires it to be about 10" away from the riders and with clear landing spots. I think thats easy to deny until lines have crashed and many models have died. Wolf riders are very susceptible to dying at their statline and even if 3-4 of them go in to kill a heavy they are not very hard to kill in return. A full hug of 3 riders in the back arc doesnt kill a khador heavy on average without buffs for example. I think it should be trialled and tested with an open mind instead of immediately dismissed as tharn needs a high damage output unit and wolf riders seem like a great glass cannon. Also measure out how hard it can be getting a 3 rider surround on a single heavy to max your output into it
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 23, 2018 6:16:01 GMT
I like many of the changes. I think that the change to the Lord of Feast will see him remain on the shelf, more likely than not, however, and I still firmly believe that the 'free corpses' theme benefit is an extremely poor benefit (up to 9 extra attacks, once per game, if the models they're assigned to survive? That is not a good benefit, and I think people tend to overvalue it because of how much Tharn crutch on corpses).
|
|
|
Post by challenger on Aug 23, 2018 6:26:03 GMT
I like many of the changes. I think that the change to the Lord of Feast will see him remain on the shelf, more likely than not, however, and I still firmly believe that the 'free corpses' theme benefit is an extremely poor benefit (up to 9 extra attacks, once per game, if the models they're assigned to survive? That is not a good benefit, and I think people tend to overvalue it because of how much Tharn crutch on corpses). Honestly i think the benefit is valued because of the death wolves. Corpses on them matter. Theres no other heart eater models with even a quarter the impact of loading a death wolf up gives since cannibal magic. If it was replaced the theme as a whole would improve but the wolves would probably be shelved at 9pts that dont count towards freebies. Thats a sacrifice im willing to make but... i do really love the death wolves just as a cool awesome unit. Itll make me sad but im prepared for it to change
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 23, 2018 6:54:56 GMT
I like many of the changes. I think that the change to the Lord of Feast will see him remain on the shelf, more likely than not, however, and I still firmly believe that the 'free corpses' theme benefit is an extremely poor benefit (up to 9 extra attacks, once per game, if the models they're assigned to survive? That is not a good benefit, and I think people tend to overvalue it because of how much Tharn crutch on corpses). Honestly i think the benefit is valued because of the death wolves. Corpses on them matter. Theres no other heart eater models with even a quarter the impact of loading a death wolf up gives since cannibal magic. If it was replaced the theme as a whole would improve but the wolves would probably be shelved at 9pts that dont count towards freebies. Thats a sacrifice im willing to make but... i do really love the death wolves just as a cool awesome unit. Itll make me sad but im prepared for it to change Replace it with 'models with Heart Eater begin the game with a corpse token.' or just make that a base rule that comes with heart eater. If necessary, rework the death wolves. The latter would be preferable, because it doesn't tie maximizing the theme's benefits to a subset of available models, and allows room for a more generically useful theme benefit (4" Forest on the 20" line, for instance). this would probably necessitate a rework for the Lord of the Shelf, but that probably needs to happen regardless.
|
|
|
Post by redcathal on Aug 23, 2018 9:31:47 GMT
Does Male Tharn getting Rapid Healing impinge on future design space for skin walkers?
I mean both are living in that medium infantry space but now Tharn do everything better than them except boxes and armour so is that the direction they'll have to go?
Not a problem for now cos tharn are the ones getting fixed and they arent but down the line...
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Aug 23, 2018 9:57:08 GMT
Does Male Tharn getting Rapid Healing impinge on future design space for skin walkers? I mean both are living in that medium infantry space but now Tharn do everything better than them except boxes and armour so is that the direction they'll have to go? Not a problem for now cos tharn are the ones getting fixed and they arent but down the line... Very likely... But that CID isn't on the map.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Aug 23, 2018 10:30:44 GMT
I’m not even fully convinced need they will keep rapid healing. But I also Loath that rule and want nothing else with it.
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 23, 2018 10:36:23 GMT
I’m not even fully convinced need they will keep rapid healing. But I also Loath that rule and want nothing else with it. Yeah it pretty nasty when combined with Tough, played against Chosen a few weekends back, 'oh I pass my tough check and heal 3 damage, so back up to 4 boxes, and still arm 21...' FIRETRUCKKKK!!!!
At least Ravagers can't get as high armour.
|
|