khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Oct 20, 2017 16:02:03 GMT
I agree the dervish should probably be 8 points. And the purifier should only be 7 points.
although the crusader is 10 points and the revenger just doesnt feel like its equal to a crusader either. And crusaders definitely arnt undercosted, theyre spot on.
im convinced the revenger should only be 9 points. the lancer too probably. blessing should probably cost 12 as well.
its hard to justify spending more than 9 points on a melee light warjack, because for 10+ points you can get a melee heavy, and heavies spend focus way more efficiently. buying additional attacks at P+S18 is way better than additional attacks at P+S13.
And sevys the only caster you really need a second arcnode with, but the guardian is a better accompaniment to Blessing than a revenger, because you dont have to give up taking a heavy.
I just dont see much use for revengers in the current lineup. For how little most of our casters use arcnodes, the dual-role of the Guardian usually seems to win out.
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Post by govinator on Oct 20, 2017 18:49:22 GMT
I think speed and price point is really the issue. If we could get a faster or cheaper arc node then they might be somewhat more attractive. As is, I don't want to spend 10 points to throw away a warjack because I needed to arc a spell.
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Post by greytemplar on Oct 20, 2017 22:02:21 GMT
Convert one into Blessing if you don't own him yet. I've thought about this (I bought one of them 2nd hand and it's already got a small conversion on the spear point, doesn't feel 'legal' though since PP is adamant about the model being the model it is, and BoV has his own full kit, he's not just a shield and head. He's a full light jack) Thats not actually true. A converted model just has to be a majority PP pieces(not majority the original model) and be recognizable as what it is. A fancy looking Revenger is a completely legal conversion for Blessing.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Oct 21, 2017 14:16:11 GMT
Amon lightspam thats not zillions of dervishes. They are durable and powerful charge helps start synergy. Even then though, a line of devouts does this cheaper, more accurately, and on both player's turns.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 21, 2017 17:45:29 GMT
Amon lightspam thats not zillions of dervishes. They are durable and powerful charge helps start synergy. Even then though, a line of devouts does this cheaper, more accurately, and on both player's turns. I think the main reason you would want a Revengers is to leverage repulsor. That seems like the biggest non Arc node ability on its Card. Not saying it should probably be a point cheaper, but I also think it is useable.
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Oct 21, 2017 18:45:15 GMT
repulsor shield is one of those abilities that looks better on paper than it is in practice.
its very easy to stop something from being pushed by repulsor shield, you just have to stick another model behind it so it cant be pushed.
also since a lot of models have 1" reach now, that 1" push just doesnt mean as much as it used to.
I wish push was 1d3" instead of 1" then it would be a little more useful. both on repulsor shield and as a power attack.
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Post by blydz on Oct 22, 2017 6:52:09 GMT
also since a lot of models have 1" reach now, that 1" push just doesnt mean as much as it used to. This remark is valid only if we consider that models are B2B (for the reaches of 1" ) or withinin 1" for those having a reach of 2 ". Repel becomes then a constraint as far as if your opponent does not wish to be impacted by it, he cannot use anymore all of his reach of weapon, which impacts then on its distance of charge.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Oct 22, 2017 11:06:36 GMT
It also works much better vs jacks/beasts than it does vs infantry.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Oct 22, 2017 13:13:10 GMT
Under Durst the humble revenger does very well for itself. Point to note : it doesn't matter the distance that an attacking model is from the revenger - as long as it's hit in its front arc by an attack the attacking model will always be pushed back.
People will go on about models always being within an inch reach, or arranging models in some way to prevent pushes - I'm happy if my enemy is having to rearrange his models into odd positions in order to hit a def 14, arm 23 light(!) warjack. The more work my enemy is putting in, the more time he spends, the less likely he is to actually achieve everything he wants to in that turn.
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Oct 22, 2017 14:03:13 GMT
This remark is valid only if we consider that models are B2B (for the reaches of 1" ) or withinin 1" for those having a reach of 2 ". Repel becomes then a constraint as far as if your opponent does not wish to be impacted by it, he cannot use anymore all of his reach of weapon, which impacts then on its distance of charge. Its not much of a constraint though since you can just position another model so its behind the model attacking the Revenger to prevent it from being pushed. Push is stupidly easy to defeat. But push being too weak is just a minor grievance anyway. I dont wanna get hung up too much on it because its not really what I consider the main problem with the Revenger. Id be perfectly happy with repel staying as is if the Revenger went down to 9 points. Cost is certainly part of it. But another issue is all the RNG8 spells we have. It means the Revenger has to get closer than other arcnodes to channel spells. For example immolation is RNG8 while arcane bolt is RNG12. The Revenger has to get 4 inches closer just to channel our basic offensive spell. The Revenger assumes a great deal more risk compared to other arcnodes. And the repulsor shield really doesnt make up for that. Essentially what im getting at is that arcnodes are not equally useful to all factions; Arcnodes seem to universally cost 2 points but I cant help but wonder if thats wrong because of how much the mileage varies depending on the spells the faction has access to.
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Post by blydz on Oct 22, 2017 14:06:15 GMT
People will go on about models always being within an inch reach, or arranging models in some way to prevent pushes - I'm happy if my enemy is having to rearrange his models into odd positions in order to hit a def 14, arm 23 light(!) warjack. The more work my enemy is putting in, the more time he spends, the less likely he is to actually achieve everything he wants to in that turn. This should answer your worries... Repel is a tool. Not a nuke.
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Post by k0rhil on Oct 22, 2017 18:52:38 GMT
Testament and reznik1 are great with 2 revengers. Those are the only tournament level mk3 lists I’ve seen but for fun I’ve even put 3 revengers on the table with these casters lots of fun vectors for d2d and boh and I worry much less about losing the arc node. Amon seems fun to try but I personally seem to steer away from them when building lists. Malekus was another caster I reached for them and really struggled between 2 or a guardian then eye of truth came out and solved that dilemma. My next one to try is Durst I think there is potential I’m thinking a super tanky faithful masses list protect the key solos( monolith bearer, arms master) with shield guards and use revengers as zone holders similar to knights sene or allegiants.
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Post by Swampmist on Oct 23, 2017 2:37:12 GMT
I want to, at some point, do Sevvy1 repulsor spam and see if people can handle it.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 23, 2017 3:46:56 GMT
Brutal.
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Post by Swampmist on Oct 23, 2017 3:55:20 GMT
sorry, too tired to speak right, sevvy2.
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