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Post by CodFather on Mar 27, 2017 6:32:13 GMT
Did you find that the list dealt enough damage to vyros without having a damage buff? I like the idea of z1 in tier, but worry that without battlelust the pow 13s just wont be enough.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Mar 27, 2017 19:21:02 GMT
I took this list yesterday to an SR event, only played it once though (won on scenario). There are a few changes I should make like including Markov, because one thing I noticed is that Irusk's 10 inch Tactician bubble is not big enough to Threaten with all those leaping Counter Charges and still be safe. Also, I don't have Markov painted and this was a fully painted event Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Legion of Steel (Irusk 2) Supreme Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] - War Dog [3] Iron Fang Kovnik [0] Iron Fang Kovnik [0] Battle Mechaniks (max) [5] Black Dragons (max) [17] - Black Dragon Officer & Standard [0] Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20] Thoughts: Don't know if FFE is good on the Destroyer because I literally went up against Box/ARM spam and the POW 7s where not relevant at all, also I'm not convinced I like the Idea of having Irusk spend his focus to maintain FFE so that the Destoryer doesn't have to spend his. I may need to rethink if I want Destroyers or not, or if FFE is even worth it in this list.
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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 28, 2017 1:55:46 GMT
Have you tried the conquest rather than the two destroyers, it'll require alittle more point adjustment but ffe on conquest has always treated me well
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wiking
Light Addition
Smoke me a slipper I will be back for breakfast
Posts: 67
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Post by wiking on Mar 28, 2017 10:59:59 GMT
What theme forces do you dislike playing against ?
Cryx is getting a bane force in No quarter No 73. I know I dislike circle
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 28, 2017 13:21:57 GMT
Apparently the Z1 fangs/V1 rockets pair won Seattle open.
Z1 list was: Conquest Fangs with ua 2x Fangs no ua 2x kovniks Bears Markov max Mechaniks
We red mk2 Cryx now.
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 28, 2017 17:32:09 GMT
Interesting.. I've been hesitating to play conquest because I don't want to ruin my LOS block.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 28, 2017 18:11:20 GMT
Interesting.. I've been hesitating to play conquest because I don't want to ruin my LOS block. Isn't tactician friendly faction warriors only?
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 28, 2017 22:08:07 GMT
Interesting.. I've been hesitating to play conquest because I don't want to ruin my LOS block. Isn't tactician friendly faction warriors only? What I meant here is that say I make a Z1 cloud wall, assuming I don't put it in walk range of the enemy. They cannot even shoot to miss if I give them zero targets, which is possible quite often with terrain. They also cant charge anything, even fail charge it (sometimes that matters with troops with relentless charge). The problem with the huge base is they can see it anyway, through clouds/forests w/e. They can set it up to drift aoe's into my army by pulling the range to have the scatter right in the middle of my troops. They might even be able to charge the colossal with something with enough range. It removes the perfect LOS block that I like with Z1. Still the Conquest offers it's own benefits, so I'm not saying it's wrong. Just that I wasn't sure without running it how good it would be. Obviously since it won a tournament it's worth trying.
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Post by sand20go on Mar 28, 2017 22:19:52 GMT
Isn't tactician friendly faction warriors only? What I meant here is that say I make a Z1 cloud wall, assuming I don't put it in walk range of the enemy. They cannot even shoot to miss if I give them zero targets, which is possible quite often with terrain. They also cant charge anything, even fail charge it (sometimes that matters with troops with relentless charge). The problem with the huge base is they can see it anyway, through clouds/forests w/e. They can set it up to drift aoe's into my army by pulling the range to have the scatter right in the middle of my troops. They might even be able to charge the colossal with something with enough range. It removes the perfect LOS block that I like with Z1. Still the Conquest offers it's own benefits, so I'm not saying it's wrong. Just that I wasn't sure without running it how good it would be. Obviously since it won a tournament it's worth trying. Yeah - though keep in mind that lady Z hanging out right on the base of the Conquest means that if something charges him (like a Jack) you can trigger Watcher (usually) and then wack the crap out of it. BOOSTED Pow 23s will ruin a LOT of things day right then and there. Roll a good column and no more arm....or spirit....or cortex. Since that occurs ONLY after they have chewed the IFP I would think you are in good shape. As you say, however, big issue is thinking about the LOS and thus the general lesser utility of the cloud wall. Blast damage in back arc isn't getting the bonus. That will hurt.
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 28, 2017 22:22:10 GMT
Heh.. the only time I ever got that watcher hit with conquest, I rolled 3 1's to hit.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 28, 2017 23:14:28 GMT
The Conquest makes sense because you really really need shooting on your jacks in this theme and Z1 needs more arm cracking, Conquest does both. I think without Conquest this list will need some amount of Uhlans.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 29, 2017 8:28:50 GMT
Besides the Conquest (which I find is increasingly becomimg an awesome choice) the biggest boon to this list is that it works SOOO well with Z1s cit. Particularly it makes one of her lesser used spells awesome.
Ghostly! One of the biggest Problems I see running Legion of Steel with things like Strakov is the lack of real pathfinder. Z1 fixes that. Additionally you don't need to protect the Conquest with clouds. You have enough to do as it is with protecting the IF. Add on top of that Watcher. Even if you are not in CC Range, remember you can shoot with watcher and nothing is more fun than knocking back something with you big gun.
Another point is the countercharge behind the clouds.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 29, 2017 11:15:58 GMT
Gave list a try with Z1.
She definitely feels strong. She's surprisingly hard to kill, pop 2 clouds for 3 focus and you're safe against most things. This allows to play her way forward. The feat is the ultimate delivery service. Turn 1 run, Turn 2 move up, 2 clouds and feat. There are not much alpha strikes in the game that feat won't stop, Sloan maybe? Watcher is a solid contest denier, along with countercharges it creates a lot of contest denying.
The fangs and Z complement each other quite nicely: - Fangs can beat any def and arm up to 20 by themselves which frees Zs focus to do tricks rather than babysit them. The arm 21+ is usually a result of an upkeep (that you can dispel) or a shield (that you can Ghost walk around). - Ghost walk allows you to not take UAs since you have pathfinder. - Ghost walk can be pseudo damage buff by allowing you to charge where otherwise you would get a free strike. It can also be a pseudo hit buff by allowing to charge in back. - Ghost walk + reposition/side step is a good combo. - Clouds can be a pseudo def buff for fangs when fangs jam stuff in place.
Definitely a top contender for the theme.
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Post by auraco on Mar 29, 2017 18:03:16 GMT
First list that came to mind was the following Irusk2 Grolar Kodiak Markov IFK (free from theme) IFK (free from theme) Great bears Full Ulhan Full Ulhan Regular Pikemen Free CA It give the most models with counterchage, the ulhans with relentless charge don't need pathfinder soo much, the regulat pikemen get the advance move. Solid ground makes Markov warhead countercharge totally safe for my army. The army has two tactician bubble. The only thing that I'm not sure about is the jack choice, I hesitate between what I have at the moment, so two jacks with heavy boiler so they don't lag too much behind the rest of the army, with heavy boiler and energizer they can move 12 inches on the first turn which is as much as the IFK and great bears. That or I take shooting jacks like a destroyer and a decimator, the decimator is decent with energizer to help with its threat range. The thing I'm worried about with that version of the list it the jack just lagging behind the army because two units of cavalry and a unit with advance move makes for a pretty in your face army.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 30, 2017 1:47:55 GMT
To me, this seems to be the go-to package for a 28 point caster (hmm...Zerkova, Koslov, Vlad 1, Malakov 2, Strak 1, Butcher 1/2) so you adjust up or down from this. You get all the units, all the counter charging, and two good ranged warjacks. If it's a 27 point caster (Sorscha 2, either Irusk, Vlad 2 or 3), swap in a Kodiak. I suppose with the Vlads you could swap Drago for a Destroyer and it wouldn't suck.]
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad - WJ: +28. (Or, choose your 28 point caster to taste). - War Dog - PC: 3. - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 4 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7
Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17 - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
Note, I only own 1 unit of Uhlans, so 2 units, even 2 min units, isn't an option...
So can we talk about 2 things.
1) Is there any reason to take more than your jack points in Jacks? (Why? Let's talk a bit more about the Conquest...) 2) Who do you think are the best casters, and why? (Don't just list your top pick!)
On 1... With the Conquest and just a Conquest, this works kinda nicely... I suppose you can drop to a 27 point caster by swapping which IF unit is minimum... Or fit in Strakhov 2 by dropping both to minimum and playing a point down (or using a Victor... which is 75).
Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad - WJ: +28 - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7
Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17 - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
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