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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 2, 2017 16:40:43 GMT
I've used our colossals with Strakhov. Good, not great. Either one is an option. They make really good Sentry targets. I think Connie is a more reliable overrun trigger, is less expensive, and has way better secondary guns. I just can't seem to get any work out of Rng 10 gun. If I'm closing to 10" away I've gotten myself into charge range of a lot of dangerous $h!t. Usually not with it vs just trying to get into melee. The rng 20 big gun is a trap. It's tempts you into walking 4 on turn 1 and shooting, but the. You're missing out on those heavy fists on turn 2 and 3.
They suffer from the same problem they have with every other caster... is the caster buff you get (here, Sentry) worth giving up 3 Juggernaut chassis jacks?
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Post by auraco on Apr 2, 2017 17:08:40 GMT
To trigger overrun reliably with Strakhov, hell yeah! Also never underestimate what you can do with a colossal that you can send 13 inches aways to threathen stuff up to 15 inches aways with mat 8 pow 23 fists. I agree with your thoughts on the Victor though, the secondary gun with range 10 rat 4 and no AOE seems to be there more for show than anything else.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 2, 2017 17:10:27 GMT
Yeah, superiority plus the feat on a colossal is just mean.
I have two words hat would fix Victor: Dual Attack.
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Post by skathrex on Apr 2, 2017 19:01:39 GMT
Jup, used a Conquest twice in my Strakov games. Actually my first game was with a colossal (and the first game I won).
Played Auroccos list too. And the simple fact of a colossal with a 13 to 15 inch thread range is scary for many players. So I think it's valid but behemoth is better in the same role. Only against armor stacking the conquest becomes better.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 2, 2017 19:28:39 GMT
So I think it's valid but behemoth is better in the same role. Only against armor stacking the conquest becomes better. How is the conquest better against armor stacking than the behemoth + a Juggernaut? Against ARM 20, Behemoth is Dice + 2 and Conquest is Dice +3. And, you get the Juggernaut's axe attacks at Dice -1. And the 2 jacks are 36 + 34 = 70 boxes vs. 62 for Conquest. Not trying to be a pain here...just not yet understanding the comment. (And the Juggs + Behemoth math is the reason I have such a hard time taking colossals...)
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Post by skathrex on Apr 2, 2017 20:26:48 GMT
So I think it's valid but behemoth is better in the same role. Only against armor stacking the conquest becomes better. How is the conquest better against armor stacking than the behemoth + a Juggernaut? Against ARM 20, Behemoth is Dice + 4 and Conquest is Dice +3. And, you get the Juggernaut's axe attacks at Dice -1. And the 2 jacks are 36 + 34 = 70 boxes vs. 62 for Conquest. Not trying to be a pain here...just not yet understanding the comment. (And the Juggs + Behemoth math is the reason I have such a hard time taking colossals...) First of all behemoth is dice plus 2 against arm 20 unless you take him with andrej. Which you don't when playing strakov. And arm 20 is not armor stacking (or not what I meant). For example a Titan Sentry with agonizer is dice -2 for behemoth. (Arm 19 halfen is 10 plus shield +2 and -2 Street because of agi is powered 10 gainst arm 12). Whereas Conquest is straight dice. Behemoth looses it's awesomeness as soon as the opponent ads any kind of buffs. While it's true that Behemoth plus Jugger do more dmg there is the small factor of Focus. If you have a caster that can spare 4 focus it true that 2 jacks is better. But Conquest is the more effective one. (Also true for attrition). In the past strakov could rarely give out 4 focus.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Apr 2, 2017 21:59:59 GMT
I have lately been running Victor with Sorscha1, while it is true that there are potential traps like leaving him too far back in order to shoot etc, I think part of how you use the collosal is dependent on what game you are playing. On paper I think it is clear that Behemoth and a juggernaut are better than a colossal, but it is potentially easier to get 36 and 34 boxes off of two targets rather than 62 boxes off a colossal in one shot. It is easier to feed the colossal Focus, the colossal has built in pathfinder, no disruption, no knockdown, no Stationary etc. It has been a great model to hide my Warcaster behind because even an AOE 5 that hits it, doesn't hit any model B2B with it. If you are running any sort of repair models, if the colossal is not destroyed, it is very likely taking out whatever is near it. My big debate now is whether or not I have been missing something with Connie? I like the idea of Victor setting stuff on fire, especially at ridiculous range, but for the most part I end up relying on good scatters, which is not so good.
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Post by auraco on Apr 2, 2017 22:23:36 GMT
So I think it's valid but behemoth is better in the same role. Only against armor stacking the conquest becomes better. How is the conquest better against armor stacking than the behemoth + a Juggernaut? Against ARM 20, Behemoth is Dice + 4 and Conquest is Dice +3. And, you get the Juggernaut's axe attacks at Dice -1. And the 2 jacks are 36 + 34 = 70 boxes vs. 62 for Conquest. Not trying to be a pain here...just not yet understanding the comment. (And the Juggs + Behemoth math is the reason I have such a hard time taking colossals...) Main reason why I switched from behemoth to conquest is to run the Strakhov list in Winterguard Kommand, don't get me wrong, behemoth is a beast to run with Strakhov, but I really like the advantages of Winterguard Kommand with Strakhov, giving advance move to two juggy is a big deal.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Apr 2, 2017 22:46:13 GMT
I was just realizing that one problem with Conquest vs Victor, is that with Arcing Fire, Victor's shooting can stay relevant and dangerous even to Menoth shenanigans like "no non Magic shooting", and even against blast immune stuff I think the fire or rough terrain effects would still apply?
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Post by Netherby on Apr 3, 2017 5:41:34 GMT
The buffs to Colossal's made them a relevant choice again. Immune to most forms of CC and grievous wounds means they are doing something every turn that they aren't destroyed. Behemoth and a Jugger can be disrupted and knocked down or blinded or made stationary. Then they skip a turn. They can be TK'd or Dominated. There is just a lot less that can prevent your colossal from getting to do stuff. And of course Behemoth can't be taken in most theme lists.
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Post by mrhlaine on Apr 3, 2017 9:07:53 GMT
. It has been a great model to hide my Warcaster behind because even an AOE 5 that hits it, doesn't hit any model B2B with it. Careful because a 5inches aoe is bigger than 120 mm, if you put it under a colossal base you'll see that it extends a little further, so if you put your caster base to base it will be clipped by the aoe 5 inches are roughly 127 mm
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Apr 3, 2017 13:11:22 GMT
Good point, thanks for the reality check. I think in my head I was thinking that it's safe to have my Warcaster close to a colossal because very often anyone shooting at it is going to hit so I don't have to worry too much about scatters. In the past I used to have my Demolisher B2B with my Warcaster for the extra Blast defense.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 3, 2017 15:55:13 GMT
How is the conquest better against armor stacking than the behemoth + a Juggernaut? Against ARM 20, Behemoth is Dice + 4 and Conquest is Dice +3. And, you get the Juggernaut's axe attacks at Dice -1. And the 2 jacks are 36 + 34 = 70 boxes vs. 62 for Conquest. Not trying to be a pain here...just not yet understanding the comment. (And the Juggs + Behemoth math is the reason I have such a hard time taking colossals...) First of all behemoth is dice plus 2 against arm 20 unless you take him with andrej. Which you don't when playing strakov. And arm 20 is not armor stacking (or not what I meant). For example a Titan Sentry with agonizer is dice -2 for behemoth. (Arm 19 halfen is 10 plus shield +2 and -2 Street because of agi is powered 10 gainst arm 12). Whereas Conquest is straight dice. Behemoth looses it's awesomeness as soon as the opponent ads any kind of buffs. While it's true that Behemoth plus Jugger do more dmg there is the small factor of Focus. If you have a caster that can spare 4 focus it true that 2 jacks is better. But Conquest is the more effective one. (Also true for attrition). In the past strakov could rarely give out 4 focus. Right about the dice +2. My typo. Fixed that. I do like a colossal for all the reasons folks are saying (no TK, no dominate, no disruption, no push, pathfinder, etc). I do wish colossals were immune to enemy spells. Mine seem to suffer from stranglehold a lot...
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Post by warriorofiron on Apr 3, 2017 22:54:18 GMT
[/quote] I do wish colossals were immune to enemy spells. Mine seem to suffer from stranglehold a lot...
[/quote]
Could always take orin and shove him behind your collasal and bam! Problem solved
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Post by Netherby on Apr 4, 2017 3:00:29 GMT
Orin is close to auto include with a colossal. But to be fair there aren't THAT many spells that shut them down, it's just there are a couple that do and when it happens things go bad
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