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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 6, 2017 19:29:08 GMT
You're probably right, sadly. Not this late in development anyway. They sometimes can be very pushbacky against an idea they have in their head. It took them multiple weeks to allow the Tree Solo to use corpses.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 7, 2017 15:51:21 GMT
You're probably right, sadly. Not this late in development anyway. They sometimes can be very pushbacky against an idea they have in their head. It took them multiple weeks to allow the Tree Solo to use corpses. This was a bit of an issue I had with the CID. Its pretty clear that they have notions and they're very inflexible on some things despite claiming otherwise. The Week 3/4 changes were the biggest in terms of listening to community suggestions. People had been going on about Piggybacks and removing Vengence since Day 1 practically but it took 4 weeks to do. I also dislike the lack of transparency with their "internal playtesting" and concepts decisions. It would be nice if they could communicate a bit more past "test this" or "why do you think that?" with no follow up.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 7, 2017 16:13:51 GMT
This was a bit of an issue I had with the CID. Its pretty clear that they have notions and they're very inflexible on some things despite claiming otherwise. The Week 3/4 changes were the biggest in terms of listening to community suggestions. People had been going on about Piggybacks and removing Vengence since Day 1 practically but it took 4 weeks to do. I also dislike the lack of transparency with their "internal playtesting" and concepts decisions. It would be nice if they could communicate a bit more past "test this" or "why do you think that?" with no follow up. I agree. I am liking them listening to feedback ALLOT, but they are still remaining "Distant". I think this is probably a marketing thing. People don't understand just how controlling the marketing people can be. And sometimes for good reason. Look at No Mans Sky if you want to see an idea of what happened when somebody doesn't have marketters to go through before spouting ideas. But the lack of followup IS terrible. You ask but never reply what you thought, because It doesn't allow us to follow-up in kind. I also don't have a problem with them being a bit more conservative in their changes (I mean there are allot of people yelling different stuff at once) but if they just explained that. Explained why they don't think Witchwood needed a buff, or why Old Witch can exist mostly the same in two vastly different rules systems and factions. But this may be some "We ourselfs don't know and if we let that show people loose confidence and stpp buying".
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 7, 2017 17:19:06 GMT
I have some background in running test and experiments both in the private sector and in academic/scientific environments.
And the last thing you want to do between iterations after an experiment fails is to move a shit ton of Variables around, because if it does work you won't know exactly which one of the variables was the cause of it, and not knowing what you can and can't move can really screw things up in the future.
Now, it may be that All the variables needed adjustment, but it's best to get there gradually and actually KNOW that they all needed to move, instead of concluding that "some combination of this is what fixed it".
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 7, 2017 19:02:21 GMT
......Well then Nevermind!!! They just Changed Witchwood again! I mean it Finally Gained Black penny as people were asking for, but much of the hitting power it could gain is once again lost ....I really don't get those guys sometimes. I really don't.
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Post by Netherby on Apr 9, 2017 2:10:32 GMT
I'm placing my bets on OW2 sadly not being competitive at release. They were so close, they had come so far... But in the end... Well you know how it goes
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 2:29:22 GMT
I'm placing my bets on OW2 sadly not being competitive at release. They were so close, they had come so far... But in the end... Well you know how it goes I'm not so much worried about competitiveness as frustration. I REALLY don't get them. Granting the faction reliable Arcnodes, but then wanting her to be played further up. They really just let an idea in their head override reality sometimes.
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Post by Netherby on Apr 9, 2017 2:44:31 GMT
And they are super stubborn about the crows not affecting constructs because the fluff is that they are pecking things eyes...
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 2:47:24 GMT
And they are super stubborn about the crows not affecting constructs because the fluff is that they are pecking things eyes... Yup. But undead are A OK. Even if they lack eyeballs at all.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 9, 2017 11:45:08 GMT
I'm placing my bets on OW2 sadly not being competitive at release. They were so close, they had come so far... But in the end... Well you know how it goes I think she'll be more accessable than OW1 at least. She has her own quirks to work around but shes a decent caster right now.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 9, 2017 12:48:43 GMT
I agree she's decent now. It's been a regular chorus on the CID at the moment...let's see if they make a final week 5 change in her favor.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 12:58:02 GMT
I repeat. She's OK. But I just don't get her design choices. Whatsoever. I don't get why shes ok to play from a distance in Grymkin, but Khador needs her to be using the range extender.
Edit: Like I LIKE Harkevitch, and people definitely say he's not a bad Caster. But the Broadsides part of his arsenal just makes no sense, and makes even LESS sense with Reposition.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 9, 2017 17:30:44 GMT
I repeat. She's OK. But I just don't get her design choices. Whatsoever. I don't get why shes ok to play from a distance in Grymkin, but Khador needs her to be using the range extender. Edit: Like I LIKE Harkevitch, and people definitely say he's not a bad Caster. But the Broadsides part of his arsenal just makes no sense, and makes even LESS sense with Reposition. Because GIMMICKS! I think PP are going for a more casual approach with Mk3 so they want casters to be more thematic and they're less concerned with competitivness. They wanted Old Witch to be the sameish across both factions because its characterful though not necceserily something that will work.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 17:44:11 GMT
I think much more likely "Because Stubborn" Its like a loose thread on a sweater. I mean I found the WGI actually wrong conceptually because they were too survivable (In MKII). And its similar with Harkevitch, and its Similar with her. It's clear they still want the competitive appeal, but they just lost some designers or something. Things where not CLEAN in MKII. Stuff often got released that was just crap. But when making things ground up they made the most Balanced and well designed faction in game. Like the range extender just keeps whirling around in my mind. Its interaction with cost reduction is just...off.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 9, 2017 21:57:53 GMT
Rowdy, I haven't playtested Grimkin so can't speak to a direct comparison, but just from a Khador perspective I'll offer this.
She's a really good jack caster. Repeat. Really good. Now, I think they stumbled into that design choice, but the 1-2 focus thing, added to our ability to spam 10-14 jacks which include a pretty boss ranged jack, means she can play midline and have some pretty beefy defensive tech in the way. Grimkin only has a couple of heavies, but we have great heavies for daaaays.
With Power Magnifier, if she had a Bond with one warjack in her battlegroup to make it an arcnode, it'd be bonkers good. Bonkers, I say. Imagine her being able to make the Devastator an arc node. That would be hilarious. And the rest of the meta would revolt.
So, yeah, there's that.
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