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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 8, 2017 22:34:33 GMT
I think she suffers into a few areas.
I don't think she's that good into magic, or long range firepower. Zerkova2, Rahn and probably a few others will rip the nine hells up of her.
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Post by Azuresun on Mar 9, 2017 0:00:51 GMT
IMO, should play like any other Scourge/KD caster, i.e. denny, Rhan, all of which are assassination enablers. Her gun or scourge is enough to faciliate that strategy, both are just insane. Scourge + an armor debuff on her feat turn is just death. Run her in theme so she can sac pawn to stay safe with jacks with multiple ROF and then rockets. simply brutal. The only problem with the theme is that it seems she really wants Reinholdt or Sylys. I'd be picking her up no matter what, but it seems she's got a decent set of rules. What sort of lists are people thinking of for her?
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Mar 9, 2017 11:08:56 GMT
People generally seem to be leaning towards theme with a large battle group and some mooks for Sac Pawn. Can't say I blame them. I'm still feel she lost a lot of flavor from OW1. She doesn't have anywhere near the finesse or trickery of her first version. I never thought I'd say this but I don't think I'll be using her in Khador much.
I agree that she wants Reinholt or Sylys though. Probably Reinholt more because two blinding Crow Gun shots a turn is pretty funny.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 9, 2017 12:29:47 GMT
AT first look she seems a anti-gunline caster, isn't she? You can run jack heavy with tons of boundless charge and -5RNG to opponents ranged attacks seems huge to me.
You choose an important model to cast reconstruct on, put boundless charge on a pair of heavy hitters and your opponents can't stop your advance or jamming you thanks to course of shadow. I mean, it's great.
Really i can't see one single unit that can synergize with her, only tons of jacks. And she really wants sylys.
I mean, you try to casterkill with a jack, you fail, then your opponents kill the jack... and suddenly it is in the back arc of the enemy caster with 6 damage boxes. LOL.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 10, 2017 1:50:03 GMT
I tend to enjoy the bland casters more. i know it sounds offputting but the lack of nuance appeals to me. its like the pButcher mentality. Simple, yet effective.
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Post by Netherby on Mar 10, 2017 2:44:20 GMT
She seems pretty strongish maybe...
BUT I think they could have made her spell list a bit more interesting. The Arcane whatsit things are okay, but not sure how future sight is competing with -1 cost to all spells. The range boost will situationally compete. I think she should be FOCUS 8...
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 10, 2017 3:05:18 GMT
Based on my play test tonight, she is not OP. She's a fun, finesse support caster. I will be writing up a full batrep on the CID. Here's a quick summary.
Goals of the list: Stack ranged armor de-buffing to support a long-ranged assassination threats on a knocked down caster. Have enough of a ranged game to be able to remove one heavy or a fair chuck of infantry before any serious piece trading begins. Key pieces - Behemoth, Grolar, Gun Carriage, Aiyana (and Valachev), Rockets.
Old Witch 2 - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) - Juggernaut - PC: 12
Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 18
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3 Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 - Koldun Kapitan Valachev - PC: 4
Pre Playtest Thoughts:
What I like about this list: 7 boostable long range POW 12 guns, Behemoth's bombards, and the Gun Carriage shots (turn 1, lay down rough terrain...). I like the auto-knockdown on the Grolar and CG plus dual attack. I like A&H to stack debuffs. I used WGI and no-Joe since the intent is just to shove 3 rockets at knocked down targets. Really, the WGI are screeners. I added mechs to repair OW2 and the jacks. I added a Juggernaut as an early piece trade...put 2 focus on him plus boundless charge, and send him screaming at something with a POW 23 axe.
What I don't like about this list: No defensive tech at all. No Orin. No Bokur. No Koldun lord. I also wish I could fit in Ragman. The Jugger seems like the most non-essential part of the game plan, but really he also makes the Behemoth and Grolar's melee a viable backup plan if there's no killbox.
Post Playtest Thoughts:
I played against Calaban including a Sacral Valut (Arcane denial).
- Fun game. - Nobody thought the OW tech was OP. - The Aiyanna and Holt +V package is endorsed for use. Expensive, but worth it if you're playing a ranged game. - The ranged assassination threats is credible. - Behemoth against stuff with -4 arm is sick. - The Grolar tech turned out to be non-essential, but if things had played differently he could have been a champ.** - I would have loved, LOVED to have the Koldun Lord and probably need to figure out how to fit it in. - Gun Carriage played a role but in this set up is potentially replaceable. - Reinholt is essential for stealth denial for a ranged assassination list.
At this point I feel like the Grolar or Gun Carriage could be swapped for a Destroyer + Koldun Lord. Either is a lot to give up. The Juggernaut could be downgraded to a Marauder and drop one rocket. That's not bad...you gain one more knock down on a stick and only lose one shot. The rockets are pretty great, and it turns out that 3 man CRAs with WGI get work done, and then you have cheap tarpit bodies.
I really feel like it's a fun, not OP caster. Not an "A" or A-. Maybe a solid B or B+ (need more practice).
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 10, 2017 4:44:00 GMT
I just realized....The Koldun Lord is mostly worthless actually, even in this context.
His problem is that if your not inside the bubble, you can just shoot him, or charge him. With Most Guns being Range 10, unless your immobile for some reason, its much easier to even just move a few inches to be outside the bubble and then just shoot him OR charge him if hes close enough to deny you easy exit outside the bubble.
For him to benefit from the Old Witches Wind Denial thing, he has to be deep enough inside that enemies take the ranged shot penalty anyway.
So effectively the Koldun lord has to be at least 10 inches inside the Bubble for Enemy shooters with Range 10 Guns that wish to shoot him to take a -5 Range Penalty.
He benefits more from stealth then from this if anything. Am I missing something otherwise? Wind Ravager seems like the most useless ability in history for a model without stealth.
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Post by Netherby on Mar 10, 2017 5:01:41 GMT
Wind Ravager is an amazing ability. There are lots of different ways to use it.
For one, the Koldun Lord does not have to be in LoS. Lots of ways to block things shooting a small based model.
At the very least he can screw with an opponents order of activation. At the best he can shut down entire strategies. Stormlancers get owned by it. Mountain King trying to assault + kill shot? Nope!
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 10, 2017 14:59:17 GMT
Wind Ravager is an amazing ability. There are lots of different ways to use it. For one, the Koldun Lord does not have to be in LoS. Lots of ways to block things shooting a small based model. At the very least he can screw with an opponents order of activation. At the best he can shut down entire strategies. Stormlancers get owned by it. Mountain King trying to assault + kill shot? Nope! Yes. This. Trenches, hills, walls, forests, crow gun clouds, kodiak clouds, obstructions, and intervening models.
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Post by tesoe on Mar 10, 2017 16:36:31 GMT
OK, time for real talk. How well does she run two Victors? ;P
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Post by Voodoogk on Mar 10, 2017 17:14:29 GMT
She's gonna run Kayazy real well. They dont like blast, she fixes that with the windstorm spell. They dont have acrobatics anymore, but now they do with Curse of Shadows. I think she wants one or two units of kayazy and then just jacks. maybe some of the regulars, snipers etc. Orin and Ruin of course have a huge use for her with vortex.
Of course she might just be better in theme. units and units of winterguard sac pawns could be good too.. let her live through things with bigger than 14" range guns.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 10, 2017 18:53:39 GMT
Tesoe, I'm going to try her with 1 colossal next game but I doubt she can run 2. If you're using the colossals to screen LOS you're going to have bad order of activation issues. Terrain (specifically walls and houses) may be a problem. I don't think Windstorm is enough in terms of managing survivability, and you won't have enough long range attacks to pull off an assassination. That said she'd be hilarious with Ragman in that set up. But give it a try!
Voodoogk, I'm wondering about the theme. You give up a lot and if you're running a gunline is Vlad simply better?
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Post by greytemplar on Mar 10, 2017 19:11:45 GMT
I think old witch 2 is going to see a lot of play.
You can toss out cost 1 boundless charges. Screw enemy shooting. And she's got general focus7 awesomeness. Blind on a stick is good too, and it doesn't need to direct hit either. She can just drift it.
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Post by Netherby on Mar 10, 2017 21:48:58 GMT
Orin and Ruin of course have a huge use for her with vortex. I feel like Orin is very close to auto include whenever you are using a huge based caster. There are just too many spells that ruin your casters day when you can't block LoS and they are super easy to hit. Outside theme, a Bokur is also probably a solid choice.
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