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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 3:05:29 GMT
I'm all for it remaining civil, and I think it has been. It started to veer and the Moderator said reign it in. That is how things should work. The other guy and myself will just have to agree to disagree. He and I do have very different memories of the Faction Forums. I don't need to go into them because MOST of us here have clear, unfiltered memories of them. It was a paltry week or so since we were there.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 17, 2017 7:12:12 GMT
Yeah, I never EVER saw anybody treat a new player badly. Unless treating badly is defined as "tells a new player that X is bad" which is of course ridiculous. Better to keep a new player from wasting $$$ on something only to have their dreams shredded. Like telling a new Khador player in mk2 that running 10 warjacks is a bad idea and will only lead to tears, maybe it stung a little bit, but it was the best thing for that player in the long run. The dream's gonna get crushed immediately, better to rip the bandaid off and only cause a little ouchy before a few hundred bucks and weeks of hobby time gets put in on a list thats going to perform badly. The absolute best way to get a player to leave a game is for him to get false hopes that something is going to perform fine, only for the player to find out after buying, painting, and generally getting emotionally invested in an army that the stuff he loves is crap. Thats what causes players to dump armies in trash cans and never come back to the game. One of the reasons I started Warmachine was because it initially looked to me like you could get into it with less time and money investment than 40K; I'm very slow at assembling and painting models, so the idea of being able to actually play with just, say, 6 or 7 models appealed to me at the time. So I picked up the Khador box (Sorscha and the two metal jacks) and three more jacks with some solos (Sylyss, Koldun Lord, and MOW Kovnik: all models that help with focus efficiency or running jacks), and tried to play. I didn't mind losing all my games at first... then I started facing things like the Prime Axiom and beast-heavy Legion. It was very frustrating and just felt completely unfair. I think the only reason I didn't quit was because of how amazingly friendly everyone I met was, and how many of them went out of their way to try and make sure I had a good experience despite my stupid purchasing/army building decisions. For example, one player who beat me with Legion came back with a jack-heavy Cygnar list so we could play on more even ground (that was one of my very few wins, and one of the games I remember most fondly). What I'm saying is that in my experience Warmahordes can be an inherently frustrating game for new players (perhaps more so in MkII Warmachine when it was a lot easier to look at Hordes and be envious), and having the wrong models on the table can make it so much worse. So yeah, I fully agree, telling a new player that putting that model down will not be a fun experience and that they should not waste their money on it is in fact useful advice. I mainly frequented the Khador and Merc forums, and the worst thing I ever saw done to a new player was giving him too much advice; "X is good! And so is Y! Personally I love Z, even if it's not considered optimal. Oh, and A works well if you bring it with B!", sort of thing. Personally I found that the forums could be very negative at times in MkII, but in MkIII it was less negative and more about objective critiques; people would talk about how bad certain models were, but it was done with a certain hopefulness that PP would fix them. It was kind of a double-edged blade; it was less outright negativity, but there were a lot more topics talking about bad models precisely because people didn't just write them off, but genuinely hoped they would be improved. On the topic of Pressgangers, would it not have been possible to scale the program back without shutting it down entirely? Like, only authorise X number of pressgangers per region? I really feel that Pressgangers contribute (should that be past tense?) a great deal to the growth of the game, and the overall positive experience. Anyway, I'm just really glad that Lormahordes is turning into such a great forum.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 17, 2017 10:15:19 GMT
First of all, lets agree to a civil form. That includes not calling a post or opinion Bullshit and not getting arrogant or patronizing. Generally I find myself agreeing with the Podcast (Advanced Maneuvers as well as Chain Attack). Listened to the whole thing. Final grade: D The press-ganger side of things was somewhat understandable but without knowing the specifics as to why it's hard to know if this was really a 'business' decision or just avoiding litigation which would make it a legality issue. The forums side of things was abysmal. The reason given was weak as hell and I suspect he knows it. Untill we stop living in a universe consisting of atoms positive and negative forces are things we need to learn to contend and deal with as they are the very building blocks of our material existence. I find very few things needlessly negative in the context of the game. If something is bad then the claim is either true or false. If it's true deal with it, I don't care about your feelings. If it's false move on. People are going to take sides and debate to find out which of the two outcomes a claim has. Saying something is bad (and therefore implying it must be changed/dealt with) is no more 'negative' then saying your not wearing any pants or you spilt coffee on yourself. It may be embarrassing or even hurtful to hear but is in fact a display of kindness. I means you cared enough to protect the dignity or well being of another. There's a saying: wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses. You know, like the guy blaming the community for bringing this on themselves. Anyone who posted in the forums cared about the game deeply and it showed, they still do, they post here now. PP has to understand the timing and context of these actions are being perceived as cutting off the communities noes then giving them a rose to smell. We got rid of the forums because we don't like what you have to say but we have CID because we want to hear what you have to say. Sorry that's contradictory. And don't pass this off as a business decision, the only thing business cares about is green, it really could care less about peoples perceptions on positive vs negative. The only time it factors in is if it affects there bottom line and even then it isn't because they magically had a change of heart it's because they want you to buy and business will do what it must. I find it hilarious where the host went on about taking his emotions out that it's just business but then when the PP forums topic came about oh it's too negative. It's 'problematic'. What's 'problematic' is how far you've fallen and how much you have betrayed the original spirit of the game: "Warning: Not suitable for wussies!" -- It is now. "This is a game made for you, by people like you. " -- Not anymore. "It's not a load of sterilized mass market drek designed by a room of corporate meatplow." -- Sanitized for your convenience. "This is raw. This is brutal." -- Unless your too negative. "So play like you've got a pair, or put down the metal and go find something made of plastic." -- You know what? This one's on me. I guess I should have seen it coming. You either die a hero or..... Its a bit funny for me because in Chain Attack they made a Joke about people calling PP "the next GW", when in truth its comparing apples to oranges when you consider the whole picture (see previous post). But I see you have some valid concerns so I will try to disperse them. Regarding Communication: You seem not the trust them or what they are saying, if that is true what is the point for them to communicate at all? With a Buisness there are always things they can't say. Be it for legal Reasons (they can't say it was because of the WotC lawsuit, because if they to, they are open for lawsuits) or be it for Buisness reasons (things that would hurt their sales if said out lout). Thats something we just have to exept. As to the point of negativity. I think this word gets used a bit diffrently in this context, depending on the person. Its negative when its not constructive critique, which there was a lot on the Forums imo. So I have to disagree with you. Saying stuff is bad, is negative in that it doesn't help. Saying "stuff is bad, because of X" and maybe even adding "change X to Y and it won't be bad" is something postive (as long as the change is realistic). For example saying Warmachine > Hordes is not useful, and for me negative unless supportet by the necessary arguments (in this case A LOT, because its a really complex comparison). So if you say Warmachine > Hordes because Jacks are to cheap you are not looking at the Problem the right way. To me, you are just complaining without giving it enough thought. Furthermore I disagree that something is binary good/bad. Many things are situational and dependant on the Meta. To you second part I have to agree, the timing is very poor and give a general bas picture, which is sad because after the Erratas the picture was pretty good imo. As I mentioned before, its not about shutting people up. Its about redirecting the constructive feedback to the projects that are beeing worked on and filtering out the unconstructive feedback and off topic conversations, which in my oppinion is a smart buisness decision of streamlining the input (which works great atm when you look at the CID Forums). And yeah its a buisness decision for a few more reasons, which all have to do with money. Postiv or negative Perception has a lot to do with it. If the negative perception spreads in the gaming community, less people going to buy your stuff, its that simple. Yes its all about the green, but it also has a lot to do with it. I can't comment on the fall, and I don't think I will comment much on your last "paragraph". For me thats just angry venting and bitterness with no backround or anything of value to it. Two replies to your post: 1. Most of your post is bullshit! 2. You make some good points about the need for more information, but I disagree with your conclusions. #1 is what much of the PP forums felt like. #2 makes a similar point in a way that adults speak to one another. To continue skipping over the problems with *HOW* many forum posters were *VENTING* their frustrations and pretend like this was all about PP not wanting to accept any critical feedback is ridiculous. Please stop it. Hardly. Privateer Press isn't our buddy. They aren't some sort of non-profit organization. They are a vendor, nothing more and nothing less. When their customers (in ever increasing numbers) start to vent, it behooves them to listen. Does that mean their customers feel entitled? Sure. That is exactly how people who patronize a business feel, because they ARE entitled. They pay the bills. I will never understand this weird shill/fan complex that arises in some in regards to gaming companies, as if they are somehow different from an auto dealership or a restaurant because they make toys. Let me be more direct, if I go to my favorite restaurant and they serve me below par food, I am going to have a word with the manager. They will always be expected to meet the bar they have set or exceed it. If I buy a car from an auto dealer and it is a lemon, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be having words with them. I am also going to talk to other people about my experiences. The same applies to gaming companies. If you want quality, you hold them to the standards you expect. You stop giving them your patronage if they fail to produce. Privateer set a higher standard for themselves in the past and that is exactly why they are getting roasted now. You can't stick the genie back into the bottle. The entire MK-III release was handled poorly. We know it. They know it. In fact, the entire direction of the company is a poor choice. We know that too because we have seen it BEFORE. All these little side games they are spending time on detract from the main game (and getting the fixes in) that people want to see. The side games, which now have huge amounts of space at the old Forum, are just like all those Games Workshop products that were thrown out, never supported, and withered on the vine. Literally, I could bring out a Games Workshop timeline and show the weird attempts by Privateer to emulate them of late. Nobody wants to see Privateer make a course correction more than me. I came to them because of what they offered, the company attitude, and the fact that they took input AND GUFF from their customers in stride. This isn't the first time they have gotten roasted. The difference is that in the past they simply learned from it and moved on. This isn't the Privateer we knew, sadly. In response to your "stop that" to the other guy... you don't have to read their posts. I'm sure you won't find anything that doesn't fit your narrative at the Privateer Forum. Here there are going to be people saying good things and bad about Privateer (I will likely say things of both types). I have to say, I don't agree with whiskeydave's tone, but I agree with the points he is making. Your comparison or metaphor is way off, because imo you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Mechanicks and Restaurants are in itself totally diffrent, and work totally diffrent from a Hobby company. To take your Restaurant example. When I go to a italian restaurant and want pineapple on my pizza they will charge me something extra and sell me a pinapple pizza. But that doesn't mean that everyone who wants pizza now gets pineapple pizza. Now you could say "but wait, there is a diffrent pizza for everyone", which of course is true, but design and production of a pizza is something completely diffrent than a figure. Can you see where I am going with this? There are huge diffrences. Of course everyone wants to be treated nicely and their concernes heard, and if something is wrong with the product its our right as a customer to complain, but if you ever worked in customer support you know how much ...lets say "stupid stuff" customers want and complain about. So to come back to my above point. They are still listening, they just tried to make it more constructive for them. Also going back to the point above. Games Workshop didn't similar things, but 1. They didn't replace the Forums like PP did, they just deleted them. 2. They didn just killed their Volunteer program, they killed their complete competetive tournament scene support. PP just shifted it, because they had to. No one was happy with it, not even PP. 3. Maybe the MK3 course was a failure (as mentioned before I can't comment on that), but everything else, the digital game (rules support), the Erratas, the obvious will to listen to the customer, the CID was a huge success imo. Maybe it was in part just to fix their mistakes, but I believe CID is a really good sign to see that PP is willing to work with the players. To me this comparison is a bit funny because GW is slowly steering in the direction PP is right now and every GW Player is really happy about it. Meanwhile PP is continuing its course and the people are outraged. PP is still worlds ahead imo (when it comes to rules and customer support) In general it seems that they way you listen to what they are saying, or the attitude you have when you listen to it greatly influence what you hear from them. If you still are angry or untrusting because of the MK3 switch it will sound empty to you. If you are happy about the recent course and the erratas you will except their explanation. Soul Samurai: Maybe, but I think they need the covarage and switching to stores/clubs keeps the covarage while getting rid of the bloat. And as far as I heard is most PGs aren't really mad because the explanation given directly seemed geniune. If they just would have rolled it back the PGs that would be let off would be pretty pissed I think. Also if the reason is the WotC Lawsuit as some suspect it wouldn't help to keep a few.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 17, 2017 10:35:57 GMT
Removing the class forums means that pretty soon it'll be like they never existed. We joke that nothing gets lost on the internet and while this may be true stuff disappears from sight very easily.
PP is reinventing itself. It's polishing the rough corners and putting on a "real" company shine. In WM/H terms, it'll be a souless mercenary/minion that works for noone but it's an rule change away from awesomness.
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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 14:56:34 GMT
With all due respect, no they are not. They are merchants, or craftsman merchants if you prefer. You are playing semantics but the core of the issue is this, if that Pizza doesn't taste good (something wrong with the mix in the dough or bad cheese) the topping are irrelevant. You are trying to change the argument to saying that the game isn't bad, it is just diverse. No, parts of the MK-III design are simply defective. There are enough people unhappy and venting that unhappiness that they felt they had to address it. Instead of doing so like they did in the past (as this is not the first time) they are just trying to shut people up. It is a radical change in their behavior as a company. To use your attempt to rework the metaphor argument, it would be like me going up and saying, there is something wrong with the cheese, it doesn't taste right and being asked to leave before anyone else overhears. I have worked customer service and there is no such thing as a stupid customer concern. This is because they are customers and all their concerns are valid. They may be incorrect about what is causing the concern, but the concern itself must ALWAYS be considered valid and addressed. Privateer has not done that. They have either ignored or been dragged to addressing concerns brought up by the community. Now they simply have attempted to limit and control how those concerns will be presented. Even the new interaction with the new faction isn't a matter of we as the community saying what we are finding problematic, but they telling us exactly which model they are willing to hear our comments on and in what manner and about what. Do you see where I'm going? They don't want our opinion; they are seeking engineer the opinion they want to get. They don't want our opinion, they want to appear to want our opinion. It was already constructive for them. On the whole, the community tended to agree on several things and when the community made enough noise (and ONLY when it did) Privateer relented and fixed the problem. That was on its face constructive. The community spoke and Privateer moved. Their new method seems designed to diffuse community comment so it can't rise to the level required to force them to act. What PP has replaced them with is a joke and not of the same fabric. In effect, they did exactly what GW did, i.e. removed a venue by which their customers talked about certain issues. GW kept its website. Privateer has kept its website. The ability for us to talk however is neutered at both and requires us to go elsewhere. Again, this was exactly the effect that Games Workshop wanted too. Really? I've been all over the country playing the game and for the most part people like their Press Gangers and those people did a bang up job. Who are all these unhappy people? And if nobody was happy with it, why did it come as such a complete surprise? This argument holds no water. It is blatantly false on its face. While I agree that Games Workshop eliminated more, there is still time for Privateer to do that too. Already I hear the same rhetoric creeping into the company's dialog. They are no longer concerned with balance. The keywords now are all about game enjoyment. More and more there are key people popping up whose origin is dubious (just like at GW) talking about how everything is too competitive. I've even heard this is just supposed to beer and pretzels game make an appearance. You will assume I'm being paranoid and need my tin foil hat, but I've seen it before and in this EXACT order. I'm not the only one. Lots of us here have been around that block. That is why I knew and said the Factions were gone when other people were saying that won't happen or asking Privateer not to get rid of them. I knew it was a done deal. First you get rid of the judges (Press Gangers). Now the stores have to adjudicate tournaments? How is that going to go down? Without an official set of arbitration, how will the tournament scene work? What has always driven this community is the tournament scene. Without it we are just a series of unrelated groups playing at our houses and the community doesn't grow. There is no maybe about it. My view is you are being naive in regards to the CID and what it is truly about. It is a PR stunt, nothing more and nothing less. I don't think it is obvious they listen to the customer anymore. It took the ENTIRE community rising up in arms to get three OBVIOUS things fixed, things so obvious that they never should have gotten out of the gate in the first place. I don't think for a moment that they would have been fixed had the community not gotten so loud. Privateer thinks that too, which is why they have installed a volume control.
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Post by whiskeydave on Mar 17, 2017 15:07:30 GMT
And now CID is a publicity stunt in your opinion.
I struggle to take anything you say seriously anymore. Does Pagani know he is a PR shill? Or have they fooled him too?
What do you think about the week one changes to Grymkin based upon the feedback? General consensus was that they nailed a few things but misstepped in the repricing of dreadrots as a means of boosting the neigh slayers. The feedback has clearly been that the neigh slayers need a boost themselves. We'll see what changes from week 2 feedback are like, but so far, Grymkin are improving during this PR stunt and what they do to neigh slayers will be interesting to learn from.
But, you already "know" the purpose of CID, so why would you care or follow... That will not stop you from throwing shots from your arm-chair though.
Fortunately, I have discovered enough features on these new boards now to make it more palatable to me.
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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 15:11:39 GMT
And now CID is a publicity stunt in your opinion. I struggle to take anything you say seriously anymore. Does Pagani know he is a PR shill? Or have they fooled him too? What do you think about the week one changes to Grymkin based upon the feedback? General consensus was that they nailed a few things but misstepped in the repricing of dreadrots as a means of boosting the neigh slayers. The feedback has clearly been that the neigh slayers need a boost themselves. We'll see what changes from week 2 feedback are like, but so far, Grymkin are improving during this PR stunt and what they do to neigh slayers will be interesting to learn from. But, you already "know" the purpose of CID, so why would you care or follow... That will not stop you from throwing shots from your arm-chair though. I absolutely think it is a PR stunt. If you want feedback, you ask for it. You don't create an elaborate way of limiting how it gets to you. When they went from MK-I to MK-II they asked for community feedback honestly and got it. The CID isn't really asking for our feedback. It is telling us which models they will accept feedback on, how it is to be delivered, and cloaking the entire process. In short, how much do you know about the feedback other people are giving? If you want feedback from the community, you ask the community what they think and they tell you. It doesn't require all these weird safeguards.
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Post by whiskeydave on Mar 17, 2017 15:12:57 GMT
I can see some confusion about an earlier post of mine... Let me add a couple words that might make my intent clearer as I was not calling anyone's post bullshit... (Added the words POSSIBLE and OR) Edited version: ============================================================= Two *POSSIBLE* replies to your post: 1. Most of your post is bullshit! *OR* 2. You make some good points about the need for more information, but I disagree with your conclusions. #1 is what much of the PP forums felt like. #2 makes a similar point in a way that adults speak to one another. To continue skipping over the problems with *HOW* forum posters were *VENTING* their frustrations and pretend like this was all about PP not wanting to accept any critical feedback is ridiculous. Please stop it. ============================================================= I hope that makes it clearer what I was TRYING to say about what I prefer.
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Post by JJDM on Mar 17, 2017 15:22:32 GMT
Your saltiness is overwhelming.
There were many broken things in mk2 that remained broken for much longer than the stuff that was adjusted in mk3. The fact they fixed it as quickly as they did is a big improvement over how fast things were fixed in all the previous years I played the game.
Parts of Mk3 are "simply defective"? There were many models that were so bad in the tournament meta that I never played them in mk2. This isn't new. My only guess as to how someone can think things are worse now with the balance of the game and PP's reaction to keep that balance, is that you had some sort of internal personal outlook of how Mk3 should have been, and since reality doesn't reflect that you have taken the stance that PP Firetrucked up.
As for the tournament scene, I agree with you here. I'm nervous about what will happen if PG's don't have incentive to run events. I don't have any reason to believe that they are catering more to casual players because that doesn't seem like a decision that makes them more money, and they are in the business of making money. I'm not sure what they have planned for the future here.
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Post by whiskeydave on Mar 17, 2017 15:22:43 GMT
And now CID is a publicity stunt in your opinion. I struggle to take anything you say seriously anymore. Does Pagani know he is a PR shill? Or have they fooled him too? What do you think about the week one changes to Grymkin based upon the feedback? General consensus was that they nailed a few things but misstepped in the repricing of dreadrots as a means of boosting the neigh slayers. The feedback has clearly been that the neigh slayers need a boost themselves. We'll see what changes from week 2 feedback are like, but so far, Grymkin are improving during this PR stunt and what they do to neigh slayers will be interesting to learn from. But, you already "know" the purpose of CID, so why would you care or follow... That will not stop you from throwing shots from your arm-chair though. I absolutely think it is a PR stunt. If you want feedback, you ask for it. You don't create an elaborate way of limiting how it gets to you. When they went from MK-I to MK-II they asked for community feedback honestly and got it. The CID isn't really asking for our feedback. It is telling us which models they will accept feedback on, how it is to be delivered, and cloaking the entire process. In short, how much do you know about the feedback other people are giving? If you want feedback from the community, you ask the community what they think and they tell you. It doesn't require all these weird safeguards. So when you say "all these weird safeguards" I am assuming you are referring to the structure to get organized feedback collected in a consumable form that allows for actual analysis in a timely fashion rather than trying to collect kneejerk reactions from the loudest posters of only the most eggregious problems? I think their method is more likely to ensure that fewer, in any, units are left in a less usable state and your method might only help prevent the UNA2's of the world seeing the table again. I am willing to try their way. If it does not work, then there is something to talk about. But you behave like a child saying you will not even try something offered to you because you "just know you won't like it because you are mad at them". My daughter used to act like that when she was 7.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 17, 2017 15:39:41 GMT
I think Bakemono is too hasty in his conclusions. ATM I don't think CID is a PR stunt but now it's a whole new faction, We'll see how it goes when loved models start getting closer to the gallows.
I completly agree with the move from 100% tournament to new player friendly, fun, etc... I think the new mini games are a part of this, the comic faction ties into this. I just don't know how it'll go. The finances of PP would shed a light on this.
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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 15:44:29 GMT
Yeah. Those are the weird safeguards I mean. Your attempt to spin them not withstanding, they were not necessary for the changes to Gang were they? They were not necessary when the Community commented on the Winterguard Theme either. There was a pure, honest movement of information from the community to Privateer and it got results. Why do you think that? It is an opinion; I would like to know what you base it on? It seems to me, logistically, that limiting discussion of models to only those which Privateer picks would only extend the length of time some units (which they don't pick and the community sees as problem) are out in the cold. Nothing will prevent the Una's of the world from seeing the table again, nor the Bradigus combinations because those were not accidents. Also, what makes you think this is going to be the new normal for all factions? What makes you think the CID is here for any length of time beyond the process it is involved in right now? What makes you think I'm not trying it? You don't think for a moment now that Bakemono is my only alias do you? I have an identity for being myself and an identity for going through the motions and having no opinion. I find that makes things a lot easier in life. You don't talk politics and religion at the dinner table. You don't talk about it at work. When I try something out I have no opinion, it is jury duty. I keep my opinions to myself and proxy it all. Only after I've digested things do I let my hair down and speak my mind. I think it is cute that you assume I haven't tried it, or that I'm not a part of it right now.
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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 15:53:22 GMT
Time will tell if I'm being too hasty. I'll be happy to eat crow if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, then things can only improve. I'd like improvement as much as the next person. I'm a pragmatic, not a cynic. I would agree with this in spirit, but in practice it never works out that way. My opinion is that the only way to make things more fun is to keep the competitive drive but make the ENTIRE game more balanced and all the models equally valuable. This would require a complete rework of Steamroller (which is the biggest cause of certain models being less useful) and a rework of a lot of models as well. The games are cutthroat and impacted because things are too controlled and stylized. In short, as long as there is imbalance there is a certain level of play required to exploit it. The mini-games don't interest me. I always try them and always find them wanting. They are "mini" for a reason and this is an expensive, time consuming hobby. If I want mini-games I can pick up how to host a murder at my next dinner party. Games Workshop experimented with mini-games (and does so off and on now too) and they are always a dead end. They are used for sales purposes but never go anywhere. Want a good mini-game? Go back to the 80s when they were king and pick up Revolt on Antares or the like. Those games are the bomb.
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on Mar 17, 2017 15:54:50 GMT
DISCLAIMER: I am not part of the current CID process, so all my conclusions are based on 2nd hand knowledge and discussion with people who are. I heartily disagree about the CID being a publicity stunt. Touching on some of the points bakemono made:
1) In order to obtain unbiased feedback from a population, said feedback by necessity must be obscured from said population. Else you run the risk of having the decisions of a segment of the population influence the decisions of the other segment. It seems to me that they're trying to have a system to make sure the data they receive as creators is as unbiased and clean as possible.
2) AFAIK, they've put the entire Grymkin faction into the CID process. I don't understand where the impression that CID process is being restrictive on models to test when there's an entire faction under the microscope.
3) I also don't see why they'd devote all this time and effort into planning, setup, data collection, review and conclusion (x multiple rounds) just for a PR stunt.
Not to mention that CID is in itself CID. This is the first time this has been attempted, and I'm sure there will be changes down the line to make things better.
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Post by bakemono on Mar 17, 2017 16:15:00 GMT
Be that as it may, if the community speaks with a resounding voice, it doesn't matter if one segment influenced another. The community still has spoken. The community can't complain about its own results now can it? The larger issue of the secrecy is that you don't know if they are using anything we say. None of us do. The community could be speaking with one voice and they could simply ignore it and say they did what we asked. We won't know, will we? They could already have the final stats and cards done on those models and the stuff they have given us is purposely wrong, and all our supposed input (done in secret) will in turn lead to the stats which they have already printed out. In short, they COULD have already finished the faction, gave us different stats to play with to feel part of the process, and then give us the product they did already. Conspiracy theory? Perhaps. It is basic Marketing 101 in regards to community outreach. This has been done before. Do I know for certain that Privateer is doing it? No. Do I think they are doing it? Yes. All the other bells and whistles are there. I'm a firm believer that in business the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Heh. It isn't a very big faction and it isn't part of the issues of the META that players are talking about (or were) now is it? It is a new page, something that isn't even a problem yet. I'm sure there are people playing certain factions that would really rather have seen the CID tested on their faction to get them going a bit sooner don't you? You don't? First, I want to point out again that we don't know that they are devoting a lot of effort into anything. We just know they setup a suggestion box and told you what they want suggestions about. Most offices have one too. Do you need me to point out how rarely they are actually used by the people who set them out for you to put things in? The CID is a virtual suggestion box just like one in an office environment. The safeguards in place make it impossible to know if anything we say is actually part of the process, but it certainly makes us feel like we are part of the process. You don't "see why" that would be important to them as a company? That too is Marketing 101 and goes to the very heart of PR stunts. No it isn't. This is not the first time this has been attempted. This is the first time it has been attempted by them with the rest of us wearing blinders. This is the first time they called it the CID and didn't let us know what everyone else is saying. The Community Game test from MK-1 to MK-2 was in essence the same thing. The difference was we all talked to one another and knew what the others were suggesting. We thus knew what ideas they were adopting and who put them forward and why. You don't find it odd that the only thing they would change is letting us know what each other are saying?
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