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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 14, 2017 1:18:51 GMT
Well... stopping the new Khador player from buying 10 jacks in mkii was beneficial for the player in the long run, but not so much for Privateer Press. I hope that's not their angle.
Looking back, I don't recall any bullying or meanness on the Cygnar list forum with noobies (or anyone, for that matter). It was all "welcome to the faction/game" and "you"ll definitely want these models, they are great" and "maybe you should try out this instead, that stuff isn't really up to snuff".
And the cavalier way Jackson addressed the forum change is saddening. He could have been a little more soft on the matter.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 14, 2017 2:16:33 GMT
Well... stopping the new Khador player from buying 10 jacks in mkii was beneficial for the player in the long run, but not so much for Privateer Press. I literally saw a player in my meta do this. It was tragic. He bought like 9 khador heavies, 4 of which were extremes, then got tabled in his first game by cryx and I don't think we ever saw him again.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 14, 2017 2:29:00 GMT
Haven't seen the interview, but if that's all they're giving us:
Bull. Shit.
The forums were negative because Hordes + Cryx shipped unfinished for Mk3, and they've not only refused to address this, they've responded arrogantly and dismissively, while putting out knee-jerk errata in response to a number of issues that should NEVER have made it out of playtesting (Spam jacks with the jack spam caster! spam griffons with the griffon-spam caster!)
more than half of the models in circle are crappy enough that they might as well not exist. Cryx runs a total 3 units with any regularity. Numerous models which were bad in Mk2 were nerfed going into Mk3.
If there was negativity, they brought it on themselves, and for them to close the forums so that they don't have to look at it...well. I'm not buying anything for the time being, until and unless I get some reassurance that we're not dealing with GW 2.0.
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Post by malnorma on Mar 14, 2017 3:00:43 GMT
Haven't seen the interview, but if that's all they're giving us: Bull. Shit. Yep, just because it's an interview doesn't mean this is pure honesty - it's just another PR instance. They're not going to come out and say things like "Yeah, we had to rush Mk3 out because we were losing customers", they're going to put a semi-believable spin on it to reassure the people who are uncomfortable but not ready to jump ship. Everyone knows the forums could get fairly negative, so we'll blame that. It has the ring of truth if you don't think about it too much.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 14, 2017 3:05:47 GMT
Yea, sorry but I have no sympathy here over the negativity. I find it insane that PP would expect people to talk positively about bad models. It's honestly extremely frustrating because PP is currently playing a completely game than the rest of us. It's extremely obvious to me at this point that Mark3 was designed with Theme Forces in mind, yet we're almost a year in and over half of the factions only have one. Sure maybe Cryx units like Bane Knights & Bloodgorgers are actually really good in theme, and Maybe Trollbloods will play scattergunners & scouts in theme, but currently we don't have these themes. We aren't playing the balanced Mark3 that PP worked 3 years on, we're playing the broken and incomplete version. No shit people didn't react positively to that. No shit people don't react positively when you tell them obviously broken interactions like Gang/Flank or Deryliss are "working as intended". No shit people don't react positively when your first balance errata guts a competitive model entirely (Mad Dog) and nerf bats a middle of the pack caster for no reason (Haley1). You get the environment you create.
At least 5 people in my meta have sold their models and quit in the past 6 months with their reasoning being "I'm not putting up with GW again." The community didn't create that negativity, the way PP handled this edition swap did, and the negativity isn't going to go away until PP fixes things. Does PP honestly thing that forum censorship is honestly going to make the community less of a salt mine? That when new players go to game nights at their LGS the veterans that were salty on your forums are going to be happy and positive in person? I honestly expect this to backfire immensely in a few months when PP's boards die out even more and the new players joining there are given terrible advice about bad models because "positive opinions only".
I've already seen someone recommend a Sepulcher for an Asphyxious2 list that had no units. Not only is this list bad because you have no feat, but the player was then recommended a mediocre model that has no synergy with the list and anti-synergy with the caster (can't hide behind his clouds). It's only a matter of time before all established players migrate off the PP boards completely, either here, Five Fingers, Dakka Dakka, or to social media. There's nothing left for established players there, and the myriad of bad advice new players get in the name of cultivating a positive environment is going to cause some newbies to make bad initial investments that cause them to quit before they've lost too much money.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 14, 2017 3:07:36 GMT
Haven't seen the interview, but if that's all they're giving us: Bull. Shit. Yep, just because it's an interview doesn't mean this is pure honesty - it's just another PR instance. They're not going to come out and say things like "Yeah, we had to rush Mk3 out because we were losing customers", they're going to put a semi-believable spin on it to reassure the people who are uncomfortable but not ready to jump ship. Everyone knows the forums could get fairly negative, so we'll blame that. It has the ring of truth if you don't think about it too much. Where have I seen- Oh. Yeah.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 14, 2017 3:14:03 GMT
Hey, hey. We have an area for that, no need to increase the salt with political talk.
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Post by Aegis on Mar 14, 2017 3:19:00 GMT
To desalinize a bit (myself too), I got an answer from Jackson on the official forum that I'm sure will help a bit:
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 14, 2017 3:22:20 GMT
To desalinize a bit (myself too), I got an answer from Jackson on the official forum that I'm sure will help a bit: youtu.be/6rqXxbIl4cw?t=135
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 14, 2017 5:08:38 GMT
Well yeah, shoving PP failure after failure into PP's face was pretty negative for them, no wonder they decided they want to read either pleasantries or nothing from now on. Otherwise, this is still a ridiculous argument. It seems that PP didn't aware of the fire what they ignited, and just blame the smoke caused by it.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 14, 2017 6:04:07 GMT
I've said it before, I'll probably say it again, but PP's behavior shows an almost complete detachment from reality.
Consider the posts on the tactics forum - they (somehow) expect experienced players to stay around the forum (without any spaces specifically for them) to help new players. They (presumably) expect that former PGers will continue running tournaments and promoting the game despite not being recognized for it (whether or not there were other valid reasons for doing away with the program.)
Essentially, they have all the hallmarks of a company that has bought into their own hype, to the extent that they no longer recognize any dependence on the players, nor any particular responsibility to create a well-balanced game.
As I've said, I'm on a buying freeze until I see some positive movement from PP, and I heartily recommend everyone do the same. Don't positively reinforce crap practices by buying their product.
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 14, 2017 11:45:02 GMT
Yeah, I have 7 or 8 armies (owned every army but one at one point) and spent a ridiculous amount of money on WM/H over the years. That's no longer the case. I used to run events at two shops and help promote the game and try to get and retain new players. No longer the case again. They lost my money until something changes, but more importantly, they lost my support and love for the company that wanted to be more in tune with the players and be everything GW was not. I helped beta test MKI and jumped full on with them as a PGer since day 1, and I just hate seeing them turn into what they so desperately tried to differentiate themselves from.
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Post by trollsareblue on Mar 14, 2017 12:30:10 GMT
What a load of nonsense. Take proactive steps to improve the forums. Communicate with your players. It isn't rocket science.
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Post by JJDM on Mar 14, 2017 13:59:30 GMT
Starting to look a lot like the old PP forums in here!
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 14, 2017 14:02:53 GMT
That was kinda the point, right? I mean, its all the same people. Just in a different place. The great forum exodus of 2017 has been pretty successful.
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