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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 17, 2017 2:10:35 GMT
Honestly I'm not a fan of the IKRPG....It felt too much "Iron Kingdoms the Tabletop Wargame-The Tabletop RPG!"
Many things felt like they didn't make sense in order for the game to connect to the Wargame. So Il take whatever stats they list as an afterthought, at best.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 18, 2017 15:04:50 GMT
I think shookies are already good, democorps would be MoW heavy hitters, but they have only 2 POW more then the shocktroopers. Giving them some damage bonus would be the way to fix them, then we have some ways to deliver them. Maybe siege weapon, but i', thinking about something to make them more effective against enemy heavies. Backswing was nice. Maybe auto knockdown? Or +X damage against big or huge based models? I really would play a unit of them, the minis are fantastic!
Speaking about bombardiers, RNG 10 is really sad. 12 maybe? But we are speaking about a theme liss, i don't think they will change weapons stats. I can't see the way they can improove them via theme force. I think they would need assault and brutal damage as a rocketeer, i mean, being directly hit by a granade is pretty brutal. With those addictions they would be very nice to play.
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Post by borderprince on Mar 19, 2017 5:08:56 GMT
...democorps would be MoW heavy hitters, but they have only 2 POW more then the shocktroopers. Giving them some damage bonus would be the way to fix them I don't think a damage buff can be the way to go on Demo Corps. The problem is that Men of War are warriors that are meant to be like light warjacks. P+S16 is (I think) higher than any unbuffed light warjacks can currently reach. A few melee specialists can get that high using combo-strike (Ret's Chimera and Gorgon), and I think PoM's Dervish with combo-strike goes higher, but that's it. And combo-strike is a once a turn attack, like the Demo Corps. Increasing damage starts to move the Demo Corps into heavy jack level sof P+S, and that seems too far. Obviously jacks can boost, but that costs focus (as does charging, unlike for warriors) and buff spells are often more efficient on warriors than jacks. So I see that as more or less a wash. This makes the Demo Corps tricky - they only really have one role, but can't be improved in it.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 19, 2017 8:26:09 GMT
I don't know, maybe they need an UA as the shoockies. Maybe granted:wall of steel?
However, a full unit costs 15pts vs a 10pts marauder, with the same speed and the same number of attacks (if the marauder has 3 FOC), plus the fact a marauder has more ARM, quite the same boxes and can knock down things pretty easely. Also, i think you can't play melee infantry in this game unless it has sensless DEF or ARM18 or more. Even if with 8 boxes each, ARM16 is not enough. I mean, with 15pts you buy a full of WGRC+1rocket, and if a democorp meet a riflecorp, the democorp is dead.
If PP thinks that the damage output is ok, so give me something to improove SPD or ARM. I know we have buffs for those things, but we have so many better option to use than democorps.
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Post by HeadHunter on Mar 19, 2017 13:46:53 GMT
I want the ability to make an army that uses only Man-O-War units as infantry. I want Karchev (with something like 3 Marauders) and nothing else but MoW and Mechaniks. Then I want to walk up to my opponent's army and smash face with Karchev's Feat. I want PP to make this possible.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Mar 19, 2017 17:32:15 GMT
Here is my list of hopes and dreams for Iron Fangs:
1. Give more reason to take Black Dragons over regular Pikemen.
2. Increase the field allowance of Black Dragons to at least 3.
3. Either give more reason to take both Black Dragons and the Iron Fang Kovnik, or invent a Black Dragon support solo.
The fact that these are my favorite models and that some of them may be currently gathering dust on my shelf is pure coincidence.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 19, 2017 18:24:29 GMT
Another thing, which caster would be the best to run a MoW army in theme? Assuming that probabily we'll play 3 units of them, wich of our caster could support them properly?
Irusk1 usually wants only one unit of MoW Irusk2 could be an option for the tough area and the possibility to charge the democorps trough the shoockies, but he can't speed them up Kozlov? The feat is nice, as fury, but they remain slow Butchers the same
Maybe strakhov? His feat makes MoW flying, but no way to improove damage or deliver them (ok, one unit gain stealth, it's true) I have no experience with other casters, so i can't speack about them.
Wich would be your choice? Mine probabily Irusk2 or Strakhov.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 19, 2017 18:41:04 GMT
Its gonna be the new MOW warcaster. Whos a-comin with the MOW theme Force Book.
Hopefully with the MOW Theme Book Coming out, there might be some CID on some...Eh LACKING Models.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 19, 2017 20:16:26 GMT
The caster I made for a Journeyman League a month back actually supports MOW pretty well. He was basically Irusk stat wise except FOCUS 6, had Repair (D3+6), and his spell list was Reconstruct, Defender's Ward and basically battlegroup Redline for 4 focus, 24 WJP. His feat was all jacks in his control range can take up to 5 damage to a single system for +1 STR and MAT each.
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Post by borderprince on Mar 20, 2017 7:05:16 GMT
For Demo Corps, how about Vengeance or Retaliation? Both of them would give a significant speed buff, given the usual speed of Men of War. It's also a pseudo-survivability boost (avoiding the problem of Demo Corps overlapping too much with Shocktroopers). The enemy has to think very carefully about whether it is a good idea to bother targeting the unit and the speed boost cuts down on shooting - a Demo Corps unit with Vengeance that has one model killed threatens 14" if you have a Kovnik, which is the range of all but the longest range shooting. So ranged units only really get one good round in. Kind of fits with the feel of Demo Corps as the aggressive unit of the Men of War too.
As for casters with multiple Men of War units, Irusk1 and Kozlov. In both cases, you have to think in terms of attrition. Not all units will make it to the fight at the same time (as you're not going to give them all Reposition at once), but the shocktropers get there first and jam, follow up with the now buffed Demo Corps and so on. I've run Irusk1 like that and it's decent - give him two jacks too and the first goes in with the Shocktroopers (thanks Superiority!), then the second with the Demo Corps. Same sort of thing can work with Kozlov I think. I've done it with Uhlans followed by Shocktroopers, so no reason it won't work with infantry alone.
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Post by MrHaystacks on Mar 20, 2017 16:04:57 GMT
I think one big argument for demo corp vs a marauder is they take more hits to remove and make use of upkeeps better. The marauder needs more support from your caster to work I think.
I would love to see them more useful as Min units. To really epitomise that they are our answer to light jacks.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 20, 2017 18:56:26 GMT
Yeah, probabily vengeance would be very very nice. But i think they also need an UA for boundless charge or something.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 20, 2017 22:13:56 GMT
Actually at the moment they occupy a similar niche to the Cavalry. So I don't think speeding them up would do any good. I would recommend they hit harder.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 20, 2017 22:41:09 GMT
Well, the way to fix shoockies was to speed them up. It's useless to let them hit harder if they run 8"
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 20, 2017 22:50:23 GMT
Except they compete with Uhlans who are spd8. Unless we put our man o wars on roller skates they'll never reach that speed.
Shocktroopers got better because they have that additional speed and can still keep their armour up.
And the UA getting rid of knockdowns pushes and doubling their attack output helps too.
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