|
Post by welshhoppo on Mar 29, 2017 21:11:19 GMT
It's true, Khador has no Jacks that want to be driven.
Nearly all of our jacks need focus to run, and we haven't got any of the ranged jacks that could actually benefit from it. Sure Behemoth is good from empower, but you need 8 points of support to fuel him. It ain't cost effective, unless its in theme and then your just using the theme as a focus bank.
Hoarfrost is cool, but it only really works with Zerkova2. And his last spell is pretty useless as none of our jacks have immunity cold, and everything that does (outside of zerkova and Sorscha) probably won't survive the hit in order to freeze the attacker.
And blessed would be so much better if it was a spell.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Mar 30, 2017 8:32:51 GMT
Yeah I pretty much agree with Auraco (nice to see you outside the CID Forum).
Played him twice now. 1 time marshalled and why its true that a Jack with boundless charge, empower and crush is not bad I think its just to much work. The Problem with Rng Jacks is that the only "fire"mode of a Jack Marshal requires Aiming, which doesn't happen often with my Jacks. It would be nice to have 1 with Aiming and 1 with Dmg boosts.
I think they can be valuable outside of the Theme force but then its really a niche, because you need Focus effiency when playing a lot of WJ. When you play a lot of WJ you will take the Theme Force tada.
That said I will probably buy them, because they are really good for Strakov1 and Strakov is live!
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Mar 30, 2017 20:52:31 GMT
Yeah I pretty much agree with Auraco (nice to see you outside the CID Forum). Yeah the CID forum wasn't enough to get my Warmahorde fix, I see a lot of familiar names here so I'll probably be visiting and posting here now in addition to the CID forums. Speaking of Strakhov with forge seers, they will end up as empower bot that's for sure, because overrun is just too good. To try the forge seers my first reflex was to go full retard with the following Strakhov list: Jaws of the wolf Strakhov1 Conquest Behemoth Grolar Juggernaut Maraudeur Forge seer (free) Forge seer (free) Marksman (free) Manhunter (free) Not sure if it's better than my Winterguard Kommand version because you're entirely relying on blast damage to take care of screening and infantry in general so that's probably a terrible drop against retribution and any cryx list with satixis. It also seriously lacks magic attack, just like all our tier list, so if your opponent drops ghost fleet you're done. On the plus side of the list, the list packs a LOT of armor and can be pretty fast, behemoth and conquest are great overrun trigger and they both really like the empower focus allowing strakhov more focus to play around, maybe casting two overrun a turn and and filing a jack with focus. Ideal turn, Strakhov upkeeps his stuff for free, activates first, cast overrun on behemoth and on a juggy, advance to get ennemy in his control and feats, forge seers empower, behemoth advance, shoot and trigger overrun on the juggy that advance and then charge something in strakhov's control area, triggers overrun allowing Strakhov to get back to safety. I'll have to try the list, but I'm going to miss the advance move on the jacks. I wonder if the following list would be less going full retard. Strakhov1 Conquest Behemoth Grolar Juggernaut Kayazy eliminators Kayazy eliminators Forge seer (free) Forge seer (free) Marksman (free) Big question is: are two units of eliminators better than a maraudeur and a manhunter. Final verdict is still in the air for that one.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Mar 31, 2017 12:14:16 GMT
Yeah I think beside Krieg, most people transitioned here. A few double dip in Reddit and here but I like the Forum format better. An empower bot is everything Strakov needs him for, and Khador will always struggle with incorporeal. I choose to ignore it since it comes up to rarely and shouldn't be a huge Problem. So on to question for your lists. First I think the Forge seers will hugely impact the play of Strakov, simply because you are not Focus starved anymore. A second Overrun with Strakov could work wonders too. My ideal scenario would be Feating and charging with 3 fully loaded Jacks for an Alpha and retreating via Overrun. Alternativly just using 2 Overrun offensive could be a huge Deal. Definetly changes his Setup from 2-4 Jacks to 3-6 with Seers. Now the question to your lists are, why Conquest and Behemoth. 1 Rng Overrun trigger should be enough. Or do you like the Conquest but think Behemoth is a better trigger for Overrun Apart from that I would try to include Mechaniks and maybe Widowmaker + Marksman to clear paths. I now talking about the Groaler is futile with you (because its your best bud), but I really like torch now. Just because you can Overrun him forward and back again. I will definetly test multible things with him and I also think that Jaws is a pretty good theme. He likes Widowmakers and Eliminators and with the Seers you automaticly will want to run a few more Jacks. This would be my list from the top of my hat conflictchamber.com/#b31b_-0x7c7wdZ0d0d8ChFhF8r8G8G8eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Strakhov 1) Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Behemoth [25] - Grolar [18] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Torch [18] Greylord Forge Seer [0] Greylord Forge Seer [0] Widowmaker Marksman [0] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Widowmaker Scouts [8] But I have to test it. It could just be that casting 2 Overruns per turn is overkill and that you just cast 1 Overrun, 1 Sup (cylcing it), fueling the Overrun Trigger and Overrun Jack ist what you do most of the time. In that case you want a maximum of 3-4 quality Jacks and I think that works very well with Conquest and Behemoth. Question is if you then want maybe a 4th money jack (next to Behemoth, Conquest and Groaler) Oh and btw I do think Marauder and Manhunter is better. Eliminators may be better than Manhunter, but a free Manhunter is well free
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Mar 31, 2017 13:14:21 GMT
Has anyone tried to convince Krieg to move here too? I'm not much of a reddit fan, so I'll probably be settling here. As far as why conquest and behemoth in the same list, I like the redundancy of having two shooting that are good overrun trigger, and the ability to have two models to trigger overrun at range, allowing more movement shenanigans. I also like the redundancy in hitting power. Juggy hit hard but they do have their limits, a fully loaded juggy or maraudeur will still struggle against an armor buffed heavy or colossal without a damage buff and Strakhov doesn't offer any damage buff. Behemoth or Connie should be able to deal with that. I like the idea of widowmakers to clear lanes, but I think conquest can do the same job, the four high explosive secondary gun shots can deal with a lot of infantry. I also like the denial the creeping barrage provide. My main issue with Torch in mk3 is its hitting power, paying 18 points for a pow 17 jack seems... expansive. I know sprint is good, but if you send it against a heavy it might not kill it an trigger sprint. And yeah I won't be dropping the grolar in my Strakhov list anytime soon, it has performed too well on too many occasion for me not to field him in the list. I do like your list, at this point I think it comes down to personal preferences, the two list are different variations of the same basic principles, lots of jacks to get the most out of overrun with some shooting to clear charge lanes.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 31, 2017 13:45:37 GMT
Having two Seers allows for 2 Overruns on 2 fully loaded jacks each turn. That's a big upgrade compared to WG theme.
The magic weapon for Ghost fleet and generic incorp solo is a real problem and may warrant one Seer to marshal a jack after all. Otherwise your second list wouldn't probably be able to go theme.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 31, 2017 13:46:45 GMT
I now talking about the Groaler is futile with you (because its your best bud), but I really like torch now. Just because you can Overrun him forward and back again. I'm sure you meant that he would Overrun forwards and Sprint backwards, but just to make sure that any newer players don't misunderstand and play it wrong: a model can only make an Overrun move once per turn. On the topic of jack marshals, I think what we need is a bare-bones, no-drive 1 point jack marshal. Then we can bring it in a list with a Juggernaut or something, and bring an unattached Forge Seer. Depending on the list you're facing, you kill the cheap marshal and take over the autonomous jack with either your caster OR the Forge Seer, depending on whether you need magic blessed weapons or not. Of course if there was a way for your caster to just tell a marshal "Look mate, I'm gonna need that jack, give it here..." without having to kill him, that would be nice.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Mar 31, 2017 14:33:33 GMT
Having two Seers allows for 2 Overruns on 2 fully loaded jacks each turn. That's a big upgrade compared to WG theme. The magic weapon for Ghost fleet and generic incorp solo is a real problem and may warrant one Seer to marshal a jack after all. Otherwise your second list wouldn't probably be able to go theme. I'm pretty sure you're only hurting yourself if you marshal a jack on the forge seer the small bonus you'd get against Ghost Fleet. To me it simply takes your second list to not be a theme list and to pack as much magic weapon as you can without actively hurting yourself like by marshaling a jack with a forge seer. It's sad but it's what it is, as long as incorporeal is going to be as binary as it is in the either you can deal with it or you can't at list selection.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Mar 31, 2017 14:44:32 GMT
Alright, the killer question.
Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good?
|
|
|
Post by rubicon on Mar 31, 2017 14:50:21 GMT
Alright, the killer question. Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good? Yes, I think so, certainly compared to the Mechanik officer!
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 31, 2017 14:52:13 GMT
Alright, the killer question. Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good? Yes, I think so, certainly compared to the Mechanik officer! I thought the mechanic was ace! Cygnar was jelous even.
|
|
|
Post by rubicon on Mar 31, 2017 15:00:01 GMT
Yes, I think so, certainly compared to the Mechanik officer! I thought the mechanic was ace! Cygnar was jelous even. Cool model, but no where near the standard of the Forgeseer, and if it was good, then the forgeseer must be great!
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Mar 31, 2017 15:18:28 GMT
Alright, the killer question. Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good? English not being my first language I have no idea what this question means...
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Mar 31, 2017 16:48:15 GMT
Alright, the killer question. Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good? English not being my first language I have no idea what this question means... He is asking if paying that much money is good for what he does. Thing is though, PP has never priced stuff around their In Game abilities, always around the cost of production. Though I understand people needing that extra something to justify shelling out the dough.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Mar 31, 2017 17:35:50 GMT
Alright, the killer question. Is the forge seer 20 quid a model good? English not being my first language I have no idea what this question means... What Ganso said. its worth about $25 over here, so is the cost of two (so $50) worth it against how good it actually plays.
|
|