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Post by MrHaystacks on Mar 24, 2017 10:54:22 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#bj1b_-0x8D8E7p7s7s7t7t8fhFhF8r868G8G8eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf !!! Your army must include a Steamroller objective. !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Harkevich 1) Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf [+28] - Black Ivan [19] - Destroyer [14] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Marauder [10] - Marauder [10] - War Dog [3] Greylord Forge Seer [0] Greylord Forge Seer [0] Widowmaker Marksman [0] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Widowmaker Scouts [8] I think is my first try of them. Hark always can use a couple more focus. Do I want to squeeze in Big B? I really like black ivan for the accurate shooting threat. Arcing fire is baller for keeping casters honest. But do I need big b's hitting power and volume?
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Mar 24, 2017 10:58:23 GMT
Sorry guys, but I get confused, I also don't know if this was already covered, but do Marshalled Jacks get a power up Focus?
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 24, 2017 11:03:16 GMT
They do no.
But empower kind of counters that.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 24, 2017 11:09:20 GMT
The trick is that Crush about equals 2 focus by itself in terms of melee damage output. But you have to get focus for charge somewhere else and empower fixes that. If you manage to get more focus, say Boundless charge or second Empower, then marshalled jack will surpass 3 foc jack in melee damage output.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 24, 2017 13:54:51 GMT
Are you mad man! BigB needs to be in Strakov BG to trigger Overrun. I agree that he is good with Strakov for the additional Focus, but I wouldn't Marshal anything with him, because Strakov wants to have everything in his BG. Well, i would play strak1 with a victor a torch in the BG, so the colossal with sentry is a quite good overrun trigger, IMO. Behemoth rocks at ranged game as at close combat, so marshalling it is totally legit for me, also because you give its bombards +2DMG and it's really not bad. Also, without marshalling you can't have the magic weapons trick, so is totally worth it. Something like Strakhov1 wardoge Vic Torch Forgeseer (free) Behemoth Forgeseer (free) 2x min mechs manhunter (free) manhunter widomakers scouts instead of manhunters you could play a marksman and a pair of eliminators, i choose the manhunters because of AD can help you to have the alpha with Strakhov's feat
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Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 7:34:37 GMT
That playstyle looks pretty aggressive. I don't know if I like it because Strakov dies to easily and Torch isn't the best of Overrun-trigger-targets. But sure Vic should work for Overrun, just that your army is pretty small. You have 3 Jacks and a couple of Solos, thats not a lot once you get hit.
The only thing I like about Marshalling BigB is the magic/Blessed Weapons.
The Problem for me is, the times it matters most are pretty specific (Menoth/Cryx) or don't help (Blast immune Ret for example). And against Menoth i can just shoot his support for Overrun triggers.
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 27, 2017 7:43:04 GMT
Yeah, i like the marhalled BigB but maybe it too much expensive? Also, i really like colossals with Strak1 but trying to put both in the same list is only a mistake.
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Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 8:22:35 GMT
My main Problem with Strak1 is, that your army gets expensive and that happens pretty quick. Colossal is kinda ok, because he is so tough, but already a rough choice. Same goes for Behemoth. Add in Torch, Ruin, Beast or something else and thats basically your army.
I normally run like 4 jacks with him. trying to go cheaper and run more atm, just to test it.
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Post by auraco on Mar 29, 2017 15:14:17 GMT
Wow being underwhelmed doesn't even begin to cover it for me. Jack marshall is still broken and this guy doesn't fix it. If oyu have melee jacks and a boundless charge caster, the forge seer is going to have a hard time keeping up with the jack if the jack wants to benefit from the drive, spd 4 and cmd 7 is small and if you run to keep the jack in drive range you don't empower... That leaves ranged jacks, but against most stuff you're better with the focus from power up and a focus from empower than with the marshalling bonus and the focus from empower... Also marshalling jacks take them out of the battlegroup, so casters that want to run a lot of jacks because of battlegroup abilities don't want to take this guy to run jacks, they benefit from empower but that's about it. 4 Points for empower is still kinda expansive so I think we'll only see this guy in the jack theme where he can be free but he will also not be marshalling jacks because if you are running the jack theme it's because your caster can do something for his jacks and doesn't want a jack marshall. Hopefully the man-o-war CID is close and we can actually try to get this guy and jack marshall in general fixed since I think this guy will be the first jack marshall to go through CID.
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Post by redoctober on Mar 29, 2017 17:14:19 GMT
I mentioned this in another thread but thought it may be helpful here too:
A big disadvantage of jack marshaling is the inability to shake a condition like a battlegroup jack can. It's a trade off but something people need to realize before dropping two jack marshaled jacks.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 29, 2017 17:18:07 GMT
I agree that Jack Marshalls will need to be redone overall though. At the moment its more of a gimmick to have them.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 29, 2017 17:28:11 GMT
If oyu have melee jacks and a boundless charge caster, the forge seer is going to have a hard time keeping up with the jack if the jack wants to benefit from the drive, spd 4 and cmd 7 is small and if you run to keep the jack in drive range you don't empower... Yeah, that's definitely a problem, one that's hard to appreciate at first glance. Funny how PP keeps giving us jack marshals who work best with ranged jacks... now if only they'd give us some good ranged jacks who work well with marshals...
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 29, 2017 17:47:00 GMT
The way I read Marshal rules they don't need you staying in cmd range all the time to benefit from bonus. Get the bonus, then charge whatever, then next turn move marshal up, activate jack, get bonus, etc.
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Post by auraco on Mar 29, 2017 17:49:25 GMT
Yeah that's a serious problem...when the MOW book goes through CID, I'll test the shit out of the Forge seer just to confirm how broken (in the not functional sense of broken) jack marshall is, and hopefully we can get something similar to the drive but not as a drive. I'd be more than thrilled if Dark Sigils just became an *action for one jack. It would also help with the critical lack of magic attack in all our tier list. I don't know about you guys, but in my meta we have a guy that's stomping everyone with Ghost Fleet and if you don't have any magic attack in your list you're pretty much toasted directly at list selection. Because as it stands the only reason I see to field a forge seer is as a free empower bot in a jaws of the wolf theme list. Which is more sad than anything else if you ask me...
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Post by auraco on Mar 29, 2017 17:50:44 GMT
The way I read Marshal rules they don't need you staying in cmd range all the time to benefit from bonus. Get the bonus, then charge whatever, then next turn move marshal up, activate jack, get bonus, etc. To get the general marshal bonus you are right, to get the drive you need to be in the forge seer command.
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